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BonnerBB
Senior Modder



Houston
Texas
USA

2225 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  09:49:36  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
I have read all the post's of peoples projects trying to get PMV or Variable speed control here: http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=708

What I did not see was someone that put the PMV under the hood so that you could dial in the speed at a constant using the standard PW gas peddle..

We all kid about a 15 volt battery - but in theory - why can't we just limit it with as scooter twist throttle and a PMV inline with the battery?

If I have lost you - let me try to better explain. I would like to put 24 volts in the PW. Hook up the PMV and a dial type throttle where my son cannot get to it. This would allow me to use the stock PW gas pedal and control the top speed under the hood. So if I put 24v in it I should be able to dial down the speed to a comfortable permanent level for safety of my son and the motors/gears.

As the batteries start to weaken and the PW starts slowing down - I can gradually turn it up to compensate for the slower speed.

To be honest the stock gas pedal/brakes that are on there are cool because my son can send it into a power slide with the sudden on/off throttle.

Will this work?

Could I put the PMV and dial throttle directly on the +wire of the battery?

Has anybody ever tried this?

Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
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Edited by - swhenrik on 04/03/2008 11:27:15

BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  11:34:46  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
For instance - could I use something like this directly on the wires directly between the battery wires and the PW forward/reverse switch?

DartŪ 5k Ohm Potentiometer With Pointer Knob and 3MŪ Speed Range Decal
DartŪ 5k Ohm potentiometer with mounting nut and washer. Includes pointer knob and industrial-duty 3MŪ plastic decal with a speed range between zero and ten. 8-1/2" wire leads.
item # THR-D5K


Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
Introduction and Collection
Video's of Projects
Modding Projects Pages
Cool Tools and Resources
What is PWMOT.org
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  11:37:58  Show Profile
I already modified a PW based vehicle to have a throttle limiter on a speed controller. In simpliest terms I took a speed controller from an electric bicycle (a curtis 1505 from an EV Electric Warrior to be precise) and added a 10k potentiometer to control top speed. The throttle on that controller is a 5k pot. I added the 10k pot between the controller and the wiper arm on the 5k pot. This gave me great control at limiting top speed.

And since that controller has regenerative breaking I still retain the automatic breaking feature of the stock PWs. The actual setup I have is a bit more complicated than that but that is what it boils down to in its simpliest terms.

The problem with replicating this is that those controllers are more expensive and harder to find than a basic scooter speed controller. Scooter speed controllers usually use hall effect throttles, not 5k pots. I have no idea if putting a pot on that wiper wire would give the same effect or not. I haven't tried it. Plus scooter controllers do not have braking so that would not work either.

However, in your basic operation where you really don't care about variable throttle but instead are just trying to get 15 to 20 volts to the motors you might be able to get that to work but you could have a few problems. I'm not sure how the controller would react in having it on partial throttle permanently on but only completing the motor circuit when the throttle is pressed. It could be too strong a shock to the controller as it would instantly draw high current instead of throttling up like it normally would. I am also not sure what kind of heat would be generated by the controller (and power usage) when the throttle is off. I'm not sure what they do internally to step down the power and might still have a signifigant draw even though the motors are not actually connected. If you were to try this I would suggest that you buy a controller that has a brake disconnect so it is already designed to instantly chop (and by theory cut back in) the power to the motors and hook up teh brake circuit for that to your stock throttle somehow.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  11:39:50  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by BonnerBB

For instance - could I use something like this directly on the wires directly between the battery wires and the PW forward/reverse switch?

DartŪ 5k Ohm Potentiometer With Pointer Knob and 3MŪ Speed Range Decal
DartŪ 5k Ohm potentiometer with mounting nut and washer. Includes pointer knob and industrial-duty 3MŪ plastic decal with a speed range between zero and ten. 8-1/2" wire leads.
item # THR-D5K





That you can't do. The current draw would melt the pot pretty much instantly.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  12:01:23  Show Profile
Thinking about this more, an electronic speed controller as a soft start mechanism and top speed limiter before the throttle switch is intriguing.

Buy a $20 simple controller and a $10 thumb throttle. Run the battery wires (both pos and neg) to the controller. Run the motor wires from the controller to the throttle/gearshifter. Manually set the throttle to the speed you want and lock it in place somehow. I still have reliability concerns but it should technically work though I am not sure how big a softening effect you would get with this setup. It would work just fine in terms of limiting top speed and retaining the stock braking. And you could still soften the brakes by adding an additional resistor there.

Now, if you wanted to get fancy there is an additional simple hookup to use. A lot of scooter controllers come with brake disconnects. Basically a wire from the controller is designed to hook up to a switch on the brake lever so that the power to the motors is cut when the brakes are applied. Add a small normally closed switch (meaning default position of the break being on) under the throttle pedal so that only when the throttle is fully depressed is that switch turned off (which turns brakes off on the controller) to allow power to the motors. This way you would have a three position throttle. Completely off is off. Completely pressed is on. Partially depressed where the stock throttle switch is pushed on but the controller brake switch is not off would give you freewheeling. This way your child could choose to partically lift and coast instead being limited to simply full throttle or braking.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock

Edited by - treebeme on 02/19/2008 12:02:36
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  12:42:28  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
I am NO engineer and I know that I will need to give you the specs on my Brain Fart... But here is my idea in theory for those of you that need a visual..

Treebeme, I would love to see a list of actual part numbers and where to buy them for your most recent thoughts and a diagram would be nice too... Here is a link to a photoshop file for my Schmatic if you would like to alter mine. http://www.ablazinghost.com/Forum/Controller.psd

Are you sure someone hasn't already tried this? It would be a simple design that could be self contained and moved from PW to PW.


Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
Introduction and Collection
Video's of Projects
Modding Projects Pages
Cool Tools and Resources
What is PWMOT.org

Edited by - BonnerBB on 02/19/2008 13:55:01
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K-man
Journeyman Modder

Paducah
KY
USA

484 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  13:03:59  Show Profile
It would be far FAR easier (and cheaper) to adjust your speed with gearboxes. Judging from your videos, your kid is pretty happy with the Super Six jeep, I feel these gearboxes are actually a little better than the slower Ninja 12V gearboxes so replacing them would be the best bet for reliable speed. I have had several super six's running 12-18v and they WAY outlasted those cheap ninja quads, plus they were faster. Single seat vehicles with slick tires are the way to go for fun and long term powersliding.

I am also pretty sure you waste alot of energy when not running a controller at full throttle?

can I ask what the 15V is all about? is 18 too much and 12 not enough? If that is the case then you can run a 12V motor (instead of the super six) and get an in between speed at 18V, or switch to the harley type 21T gearboxes (if they can be made to fit) and run it at the easy to charge 12V (I hate charging 2 different batteries all the time). That is my personal favourite for long term reliable speed and easy charging (21T gearboxes on 12V with larger wheeled powerwheels), plus it will survive occasional 18V "races" on pavement without any smoking of the motors, at least I never had it do it, wouldn't go in grass though.

that's my 2-cents, by all means if you want to build a super cool speed controlled vehicle don't let me discourage you!
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  13:41:49  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by K-man

It would be far FAR easier (and cheaper) to adjust your speed with gearboxes. Judging from your videos, your kid is pretty happy with the Super Six jeep, I feel these gearboxes are actually a little better than the slower Ninja 12V gearboxes so replacing them would be the best bet for reliable speed. I have had several super six's running 12-18v and they WAY outlasted those cheap ninja quads, plus they were faster. Single seat vehicles with slick tires are the way to go for fun and long term powersliding.

I am also pretty sure you waste alot of energy when not running a controller at full throttle?

can I ask what the 15V is all about? is 18 too much and 12 not enough? If that is the case then you can run a 12V motor (instead of the super six) and get an in between speed at 18V, or switch to the harley type 21T gearboxes (if they can be made to fit) and run it at the easy to charge 12V (I hate charging 2 different batteries all the time). That is my personal favourite for long term reliable speed and easy charging (21T gearboxes on 12V with larger wheeled powerwheels), plus it will survive occasional 18V "races" on pavement without any smoking of the motors, at least I never had it do it, wouldn't go in grass though.

that's my 2-cents, by all means if you want to build a super cool speed controlled vehicle don't let me discourage you!



I estimate the parts to be around $35 including shipping... Plus I am looking for something that can be moved from PW to PW so that I don't have to change out all the gears and/or motors on each and everyone of them to achive a speed that is fun for the little one! Now what would be cheaper - a movable speed control or buying a bunch of gears and motors. I am hoping this setup will allow me to run 6, 12, 18, and 24 volts. I am thinking that all I have to do is make sure that the controller does not have Under Voltage protection. Correct me if I am wrong.. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
Introduction and Collection
Video's of Projects
Modding Projects Pages
Cool Tools and Resources
What is PWMOT.org

Edited by - BonnerBB on 02/19/2008 13:47:45
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  13:52:50  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
I have some 19t's for strength, super 6's, 12v motors on order just to play around with... This is in addition to me wanting to fine tune the voltage with my above idea...

K-man, What do you mean by this below quote?

quote:
Originally posted by K-man


I am also pretty sure you waste alot of energy when not running a controller at full throttle?




Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
Introduction and Collection
Video's of Projects
Modding Projects Pages
Cool Tools and Resources
What is PWMOT.org
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  15:52:11  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
Like Treebeme mentioned, most cheap controllers use hall effect throttles, not 5k pots. Do you have a link to a cheaper controller that uses a 5k throttle?

There was a project that was similar in idea to what you are talking about.... a Bigfoot build. Ah yes, here it is:
http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2816
Unfortunately, I'm not really sure what he was trying to accomplish, other then not wanting to take the time to remove the throttle switch.

A controller running at partial throttle has some definite losses. It's no where near as bad as a resistor, but still wastes some energy. The closer to full throttle, the less the losses.

I've tried limiting the throttle on 2 different vehicles, the Jeep and Bigfoot..... It limits the torque a LOT, and limits the top speed very little. Sounds completely opposite of what you are shooting for, you want instant torque and limiting the top speed.

If doing a variable speed controller, why not just use it as variable speed? You can put in a seperate brake pedal that will short the motors, and give them the skidding. And a quick application of the throttle gets them full throttle again. The ramp up typically isn't that slow. The Dirt Grinder controller is really slow, but the other one's I've run react fairly quick.

Now, take a PW, stock, and let a kid drive it around. Then, take one with a completely variable throttle, and let them drive it around, and remind them that they "can" go slow if they want to. It's night and day difference in eliminating the jerking, allowing them to slow down instead of stop or skid for corners, etc. It's pretty frickin cool to see!

I think that varying battery setups would be much better suited for your criteria. Doing a contraption with multiple 6 volt batteries that you can choose how many you can connect would be simpler and easier to set up, more efficient, and give you exactly what you want for instant torque and limiting top speed..... but this is just my opinion.

Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  16:06:30  Show Profile
One problem with your picture/diagram, most basic scooter controllers use a hall effect throttle, not a potentiometer. That would make your choice of speed trimmers a bit tougher which is why I mentioned using a cheap thumb throttle. I don't think a straight pot swap would work with the cheap controllers. But I haven't actually tried anything like that. Also, the throttle on a PW is wired in before the f/r switch, not after. But that doesn't change the theory at all.

As for K-Mans comment, the way most inexpensive speed controllers work is to pulse the full 24v output to the motors to gain partial speed rather than purely outputting a lower voltage power to the motors. There are inherrent losses to using such a system. Basically you are going to use more electricity to pulse a 24v signal to simulate 18v than you would in sending a full, unpulsed signal at 18v in the first place (by running three 6v batteries for example). There are disagreements on this board about how much of an energy use difference there really is between the two methods but there is definately a difference.

So if you are simply looking for a top speed medium between 12v and 24v you would be better off just running 18v and not using a controller at all. The main advantage to using a speed controller is in allowing you to have a variable throttle, not in it's efficiency. So if you are going to use a speed controller with the stock on/off throttle you are not really gaining anything.

My only thought on the whole matter is that with the speed controller method you have described there is a chance it would act as a soft start mechanism to help save the gearboxes which you would not get with a straight 18v situation. That alone would possibly justify the investment if it worked and the fact that you would have an adjustable top speed and retain the stock braking is a potentially large bonus. But there are other ways to gain soft-start without going through all the hassle of a hardwired speed controller (for about the same or less money) and controlling the top speed can be done simply be changing the number of 6v batteries you are using at any one time.



------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock

Edited by - treebeme on 02/19/2008 16:12:38
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2008 :  16:16:50  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
I think there's an echo in here Hello Hello Hello Hello

He's looking for something that will skid and spin and powerslide.... I don't think a soft start is gonna help much.

Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho

Edited by - swhenrik on 02/19/2008 16:17:55
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2008 :  13:33:53  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
swhenrik,

I read your message on that other tread. Thanks!

You mentioned earlier that Variable speed was the coolest MOD you ever did.

I am going to order a thumb throttle, controller, and switch just to play around with. I am first going to try to govern the speed as this post says at the battery.

I will eventually - after I get more experience - move it to the pedal and try to rewire the brakes.

Here is a thread that I saw that you discussed controllers in 2006, http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=624

Have you learned anything new since 2006 in regards to what parts to use if you did it again?

What controller and thumb throttle would you recommend now that you have more experience?

Anybody can chime in if they like!


Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
Introduction and Collection
Video's of Projects
Modding Projects Pages
Cool Tools and Resources
What is PWMOT.org

Edited by - BonnerBB on 02/20/2008 13:45:00
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2008 :  14:43:47  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
Here's a list of my experiences:

I got a Curtis 302-S9 first, but shelved it before installing it and ordered a Curtis 1505 for the regenerative braking to simplify the setup in the Jeep (easier to use for the kids). The 1505 works flawlessly. My only gripe is that the "coast" position is so close to the "stop" endpoint that it's completely impossible to find it, or vary the braking strength. For kids, especially younger ones, it works OK, just applies full brakes when the throttle is released. Regen braking on a PW is probably not actually doing any battery charging, but it made the braking that much easier to implement.

The Bigfoot project was intended to be 4wd first, adding varible speed was a bit of an afterthought, so I used the 302-S9 that I had "laying around." The lack of braking hasn't been a big problem, even with the added speeds of super 6 motors on 12 volts. I think the added drag of the 4wd helps slow it better even without the brakes. There is a working seperate brake pedal now, but my son doesn't even know what it's for yet. The 302-S9 also works flawlessly. Only gripe.... Not sure if it's the fault of the twist throttle or the controller, but it is a bit touchy when trying to take off very slowly. The controller handles the 4wd current fine, doesn't even get warm when pulling around another PW behind it on soft and hilly terrain. But I'm running motors in series, which cuts current a lot. If you run motors in parallel, your current will be at least twice what this one pulls.

The Dora Quad project was intended to be 4wd and variable speed before we even decided to buy it. Putting a twist throttle on it was so easy, and the 4wd in series and 24 volts go together so well, it just seems like the natural thing to do. Using the stock pedal to short the motors for braking is super easy. I ordered a 302-S9 since it's cheap, easy, available, and I was already familiar with it. No idea how it works yet, as it hasn't been driven more then 5 feet, but it's also not complete.

I'm not using some of the features on either controller, like brake lights or the charging port for example, so I can't comment on how well they work.

If you get a 302-S9, I recommend getting the mating plugs they sell at TNC scooters, it makes connections that much easier.
- 6 pin for the throttle. The throttles come with "Tabs" on the ends of the wire that slip right into the 6 pin connector, but not the plastic connector itself. The controller already has that plug installed.
- 2 pin for the on/off switch. You need just one end (male or female) of the set, as the other end is installed on the controller, but you can use the other 1/2 for the charing port or brake lights or something, I forget which, and TNC's website is acting up.
- A "battery/motor" connector. Again, get one set, the male will plug into the "motor" connector that is already installed on the controller, and the female will plug into the "battery" connector (or vice versa). You will most likely want to solder the wires in to make it more secure.

I can't comment on what kind of connectors the other brands of controllers use.

If you do decide to get a 1505 for some reason, make absolutely sure you order the connector to go with it. i couldn't even imagine trying to connect anything to those micro pins on the controller itself. I used 4 conductor phone line for all low voltage stuff (the controls). You'll want VERY fine wire to fit into that connector.



My last order....

Item Name: Half Twist Throttle Cable (Hall Effect) with 24 Volt LED Meter
Item Options: Shipping: USPS (lower 48) Priority Uninsured, zone 5

Item Number: 101105

Quantity: 1

Total: $10.00 USD



Item Name: 2 Pin Modular Connector
Item Number: 101161

Quantity: 1

Total: $0.50 USD



Item Name: 24V Controller (Model CT-302S9)
Item Number: 101180

Quantity: 1

Total: $15.00 USD



Item Name: 3 Pin Modular Connector
Item Number: 101162

Quantity: 2

Total: $1.00 USD



Item Name: 6 Pin Modular Connector
Item Number: 101164

Quantity: 1

Total: $0.50 USD



Item Name: 2 Pin (Battery / Motor) Modular Connector
Item Number: 101165

Quantity: 4

Total: $2.00 USD



Cart Subtotal: $29.00 USD
Shipping: $7.15 USD
Sales Tax:
Cart Total: $36.15 USD

Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho

Edited by - swhenrik on 02/20/2008 14:46:40
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2008 :  15:54:27  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
Thanks for being so thorough! You rock!

With whom did you place this order and where? I am assuming TNC

Looks like if I duplicate this order - I would I be set.. You didn't miss anything did you?

I will probably order a thumb throttle also just so I can experiment...


Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
Introduction and Collection
Video's of Projects
Modding Projects Pages
Cool Tools and Resources
What is PWMOT.org

Edited by - BonnerBB on 02/20/2008 15:55:21
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2008 :  16:36:02  Show Profile
One note on the 1505. They are not made anymore so they can be hard to find. And as far as the pin header on the board, I just bought a generic cable with an 8-pin connector on it from www.allelectronics.com to connect to it.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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jongscx
Journeyman Modder

athens
ga
USA

119 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2008 :  17:19:57  Show Profile
Can't you just open the hall-effect thumb control... And take out the spring?

---------------------
if it aint broke... you didn't mod it enough

If you're reassembling something and a part doesn't fit, find a bigger hammer.
If that part breaks, then you know it was due to be replaced anyway.
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2008 :  17:32:17  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
That is what I plan on trying... I also thought about mounting the thumb controller sideways on a board and making some pegs of some sort to hold the throttle open. We'll see when I get it in my hand.

I do intend on trying the straight 24 volt PW with this Thumb Governor... May break a controller or two - but - like someone said, "if it aint broke... you didn't mod it enough"

I will keep everyone posted with pictures and the such when I get my loot!

I will probably need a little help here and there too..

As always - any comments and suggestions is appreciated!

Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2008 :  07:11:35  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by BonnerBB

Thanks for being so thorough! You rock!

With whom did you place this order and where? I am assuming TNC

Looks like if I duplicate this order - I would I be set.. You didn't miss anything did you?
Yep, TNC scooters. They aren't real good about sending confirmation emails.... but they send out the orders quite quickly.

I just copied the order receipt I got via email and posted it here.... and even included a total.

I ordered 4 of the motor/battery plugs, even though I only needed one set (a single male and female set is all you need). I thought I might use them on other things, at at $0.50 each I wasn't too concerned about going broke. Same with the 3 pin connectors.... supposedly there's 2 different styles of plugs that MIGHT come on a 302-S9 for the throttle connection, either a 6 pin or a 3 pin. So, I ordered both plugs just in case.

quote:
Originally posted by BonnerBB

I will probably order a thumb throttle also just so I can experiment...
That's one of the coolest things about these parts.... they are so cheap there's not a lot of concern about screwing up parts or needing to order extra's.

quote:
Originally posted by treebeme

One note on the 1505. They are not made anymore so they can be hard to find.
They are still listed at Electric Scooter Parts:
http://electricscooterparts.com/speedcontrollers.html (scroll down to the 1505)
But are now listed at $75.... no way would I have paid that much for it! The $45 I paid seemed like too much.

They used to sell them on eBay also, but I don't see any listed right now, or even any recent ones in completed items.
quote:
Originally posted by treebeme

And as far as the pin header on the board, I just bought a generic cable with an 8-pin connector on it from www.allelectronics.com to connect to it.
Did it plug right in like the original one? Is there a tab to hold it on like the original? Got a link? That sounds pretty cool.
quote:
Originally posted by jongscx

Can't you just open the hall-effect thumb control... And take out the spring?

Yep, you can. They open up pretty easily, the "twist" portion just snaps on. I took the spring out on the one I put on the Dora quad, and "thinned" the spring to lighten it up.

Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho

Edited by - swhenrik on 02/21/2008 07:16:29
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2008 :  07:47:39  Show Profile
It's cool that they have the 1505s again. I could have used an extra when I was working on the batmobile.

As for the connector, I believe that this is the one I used, though I don't remember it coming with the male headers. There was no locking tab but there was plenty of friction on it's own to keep it in place.

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/CON-88/189/2_8-PIN_CONNECTORS_W__HEADERS_.html

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2008 :  08:06:21  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
And that plugged right in huh? That is pretty cool.

Here's the one for the 1505:
http://electricscooterparts.com/wireconnectors.html#throttle
Well, gets you in the correct spot in the list anyway.
Item # CNX-7PS1



You can see in that pic, the little "ramp" thing that it uses as a catch. Kinda looks like the one in Treebeme's link has that same catch. Maybe the exact same connector?

So, now I have to ask.... how in the hell did you think of trying a computer cable on a scooter controller?!?! Did you just recognize the plug?

Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho

Edited by - swhenrik on 02/21/2008 08:10:01
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2008 :  09:12:07  Show Profile
Pretty much it 'looked' like the right size. And I was ordering something else from allelectronics at the time so I took a shot.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2008 :  09:47:33  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
I bought (ALOT / A LOT) of extra gearboxes and motors from one of the other members thats child has outgrown PW's. That will be a sad day when mine are too large to ride them anymore. Hopefully I will have grandkids some day and I can start all over again...

I just placed an order from TNC... I can't wait!

Got exactly what swhenrik got last time!

I added a thumb throttle and a extra controller though...

Thought a extra controller would be nice so when MY idea goes up in smoke - I can attempt some of the already proven mods on here.

Didn't do the 1505 - too rich for my blood right now - maybe later!

I will keep everyone posted on what happens.. Probably will not see any goodies until Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.


Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

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Edited by - BonnerBB on 02/21/2008 09:49:25
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2008 :  11:37:28  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
I did a update on my diagram to include all the parts that were actually ordered. Sure hope this works...






Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2008 :  13:19:35  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
Watch the wire colors on the throttle, sometimes they don't match the controller coloring. But there will be a guide with both the throttle and the controller so you know which is which.

The 4th wire on the throttle is for the battery indicator... attach to the "blue" wire on the controller as I noted before if you want it to work. If nothing else, it's a nice indicator of when it's on or not.

Someone mentioned that the high/low switch is after the throttle on newer PW's... but I forget if you said what you are putting this on.....

The quick connects on the wires aren't necessary.... IF PW batt's, they already have plugs. If aftermarket SLA's, they have female spades to disconnect. And then if you buy the plugs that plug into the controller, you'll have a disconnect there also.

Switch... a good idea. I don't have one on the Dora quad yet. The Bigfoot has a simple Radio Shack toggle. The Jeep has an old riding mower key, so I can take it away if needed!

Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2008 :  13:36:10  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by swhenrik

Watch the wire colors on the throttle, sometimes they don't match the controller coloring. But there will be a guide with both the throttle and the controller so you know which is which.

The 4th wire on the throttle is for the battery indicator... attach to the "blue" wire on the controller as I noted before if you want it to work. If nothing else, it's a nice indicator of when it's on or not.

Someone mentioned that the high/low switch is after the throttle on newer PW's... but I forget if you said what you are putting this on.....

The quick connects on the wires aren't necessary.... IF PW batt's, they already have plugs. If aftermarket SLA's, they have female spades to disconnect. And then if you buy the plugs that plug into the controller, you'll have a disconnect there also.

Switch... a good idea. I don't have one on the Dora quad yet. The Bigfoot has a simple Radio Shack toggle. The Jeep has an old riding mower key, so I can take it away if needed!



Thanks for the tips on the throttle..

My design is meant to be mobile - if it works... I should be able to move this from PW to PW as long as I have room for the 2-12v batteries. I was told in a earlier post that in theory - in my design it does not matter whether the High/Low switch is before or after the stock PW throttle/pedal. In other words it should be irrelevant since I am controlling the Voltage before both of them.

I already have Quick disconnects on all of my PW's because I only use batteries from Gruber. I have already cut the stock battery connectors off of all of PW's that are out of warranty. Only one that I have that still has the stock connector is my Hurricane which is also the one that was purchased new. I was able to modify it without cutting wires by stealing the connector out of the top of a DEAD battery and putting quick disconnects on it to allow for the Gruber batteries. I am sure others have done the same..

My oldest boy is only 3 and 1/2 so to disable it - I just unhook the battery!






Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

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Edited by - BonnerBB on 02/21/2008 14:16:23
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 02/29/2008 :  19:42:25  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
Bonner Governor worked flawlessly!!!!! I will give details later when I have more time... Wife would kill me if I went into details right now!

Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2008 :  12:17:47  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
Here are some images of the finished product...

Only changes I made to the above diagram was the following: (I will upgrade my diagram when I have more time.

I eliminated the switch and hard wired the yellow and white wire together instead.

I added a 30 amp fuse between the battery and controller.

I also added a 30 volt panel meter to be able to precisely control the voltage being sent to the motors.

One nice thing that I did not expect is the controller must have some kind of voltage protection built in because when he floors it on take off it automatically lowers the voltage and quickly increases. Make a real nice soft start.

I have tried this PMV in a box on 3 of my different vehicles. Our Hurricane, Eliminator, and Firerock - pictured.

I ran the controller at varying voltages - 8 volts for my 2 year old and 20 volts for my 3 1/2 old.

It sure makes it nice to adjust the speed on the fly - depending on which child is driving. It also is nice to be able to increase the voltage as the batteries start to weaken...








Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
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Edited by - BonnerBB on 03/02/2008 14:13:32
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gameboy
Moderator

just north of austin
tx
USA



4796 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2008 :  14:29:42  Show Profile
how does the throttle work?
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2008 :  15:09:58  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by gameboy

how does the throttle work?



I fine tune the voltage with the scooter thumb throttle under the hood (pictured below would be my thumb). Standard PW foot throttle is used by my son (Standard ON/OFF and brake control). Notice in the below pictures how I am able to adjust the voltage to my liking, the vehicles motor's capabilities, and of course child's experience.

8 volts for my 2 1/4 year old to practice safely..


15 volts - for my 3 1/2 year old to do power slides without burning up the engines.


22-24 volts - for engine smoking speeds to impress the neighbors!

Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

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Edited by - BonnerBB on 03/02/2008 15:31:04
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gameboy
Moderator

just north of austin
tx
USA



4796 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2008 :  15:31:05  Show Profile
well. that was the impression i got since the thumb throttle was in the front end, but i didnt think of the fine tuning thing. thats pretty cool.

so do you ever get 24volts to the motors or do you have them in series to make 12v for each motor?

do you ever plan to put a variable throttle for the kid to use?

"free is always better"
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2008 :  16:07:31  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by gameboy

well. that was the impression i got since the thumb throttle was in the front end, but i didnt think of the fine tuning thing. thats pretty cool.

so do you ever get 24volts to the motors or do you have them in series to make 12v for each motor?

do you ever plan to put a variable throttle for the kid to use?



This plugs directly in between the battery and the stock PW plugin's - I did not make any changes to the stock PW wiring. This box is completely self contained. I took a picture of the box not attached to a vehicle to get a better perspective. Wires on left plug into battery and wires on right plug directly into the PW. Controller requires 24 volts to work so I have 2-12v batteries in a series to achieve this.

Yes, I plan on doing a variable throttle when I gain more experience with the stock PW wiring... These controllers are very cheap and the part numbers that swhenrik gave me worked perfect... I bought two throttles and controllers to play with - so I have spares. Variable throttle controlled by my son - might be my next project after I finish the State Trooper. I just wanted to do this Bonner Governor first. Sooooo.... many projects, Soooooo... little time.



Also took some pictures of it in my sons Hurricane to show that I move it from PW to PW.


I know, I know... I need to do little cutting to fit the batteries or reroute the batteries or move the Bonner governor to the hood.

Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
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Edited by - BonnerBB on 03/03/2008 11:53:27
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  07:50:59  Show Profile
Congrats on the successful project. Now lets just see how durable it is. I suspected it would give you a soft start. I assume the brakes work just fine? Did you soften those with a resistor as well?

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  08:53:00  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by treebeme

Congrats on the successful project. Now lets just see how durable it is. I suspected it would give you a soft start. I assume the brakes work just fine? Did you soften those with a resistor as well?



Thanks for the Congrats Treebeme - my wife did not quite see the novelty and usefulness of the Bonner Governor the way you guys hopefully will.

I ran the controller on 3 different PW's for a combined usage of probably 3 hours this weekend. So far it has worked like a charm.

Yes - it has a soft start. It is really cool because it acts almost like a traction control on take off. You can here the motors revving up like a turbo on a car. I guess the controller somehow determines the amount of voltage to send to the motors based upon the amp draw. Probably some safety mechanism that keeps from wheelchairs doing wheelies if accidentally floored. If my son throws it into a power slide and the wheels are already spinning it does not have that soft start effect. I guess there is not a large enough amp spike when doing a power slide for the controller to take over because the tires are already moving and loose from the ground.

Brakes work just like normal. Somehow my 3 1/2 year old has figured out that if he does not take his foot completely off of the pedal he can coast if he wants to. In other words he is holding it down just barely in order for the brakes to not engage. I thought something was wrong with the brakes at first - but he was doing it on all of his PW's.. This is a new technique that he has come up with on his own! I asked him if that is what he was doing and he had a BIG smile on his face. He didn't quite understand what I was asking but his devilish smile confirmed it. When he is coasting I can yell STOP! - and it will start skidding like normal which confirms that he is taking his foot off the pedal the rest of the way.




Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
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Edited by - BonnerBB on 03/03/2008 09:03:52
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  09:09:14  Show Profile
One other note, the voltmeter was a nice touch.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  10:59:34  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
I gotta say, that's a very nice and clean all-in-one setup!!!!

When I'd limit the pedal travel to limit speed, the motor's torque seems very low, but the speeds were a bit high. Do you notice this also?

I assume that if you crank the throttle to wide open, the "soft start" you are talking about will be greatly reduced.

The "coasting". My son was doing that also, and very consistently, at about 26 months.... I couldn't believe it! I think I mentioned that in my "Jeep" thread. That's one of the things I don't like about the setups that use a relay for the throttle, they lose that coasting ability.

Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho

Edited by - swhenrik on 03/03/2008 11:00:07
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  11:24:30  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by swhenrik

I gotta say, that's a very nice and clean all-in-one setup!!!!

When I'd limit the pedal travel to limit speed, the motor's torque seems very low, but the speeds were a bit high. Do you notice this also?

I assume that if you crank the throttle to wide open, the "soft start" you are talking about will be greatly reduced.

The "coasting". My son was doing that also, and very consistently, at about 26 months.... I couldn't believe it! I think I mentioned that in my "Jeep" thread. That's one of the things I don't like about the setups that use a relay for the throttle, they lose that coasting ability.



Thank you for the compliment...

I noticed that if I hold him back with my leg in front of his little jeep and have my son floor it that the Voltage meter would decrease down to a contstant 7-8 volts (maybe it was less - I'll check). Tires wouldn't even spin. I don't think it is a torque thing - but the controller doing its job. I will try the holding him back thing at wide open when I get home today to see if the torque returns as you were thinking at wide open and will also watch the Voltmeter to see if it lowers.

I will also put my contraption on the Hurricane and have him climb a hill from a dead stop to see if the torque is limited and regained slowly or lost completly.

Well my son was doing the coasting/brakey thing at 25 months - Take THAT!
Just kidding!

When you said this, "That's one of the things I don't like about the setups that use a relay for the throttle, they lose that coasting ability." What are you referring to as a relay throttle?



Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
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Video's of Projects
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Edited by - BonnerBB on 03/03/2008 11:56:45
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  11:58:04  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
I made some edits to the above post - swhenrik please reread!
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  13:52:17  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by BonnerBB

I made some edits to the above post - swhenrik please reread!

I didn't read the first time... so I wouldn't know what it used to say.

My son was up to his ears in snow at 25 months.... so he couldn't have learned it any sooner anyway.

Some people like using relays to control different things on a Power Wheels. One of the ideas is to use a light duty switch under the pedal, which then triggers a relay. The relay is a SPDT to act as throttle and brake, just like stock. But, the switch under the pedal is just on or off, which means the relay is either full throttle or full brake, and no way to get that "coast" position. And seemed most didn't believe me that the kids are mentally capable of finding that coast position, so it's nice to hear someone else have the same experience.

I had the 4x4 Bigfoot with my son driving it, pulling a smaller Jeep with my daughter in it. They were driving around the track, and it takes everything the Bigfoot will do to pull that much up the hills. But I wanted to keep the speeds down for safety reasons. Limiting the throttle did almost nothing to reduce the top speed, but cut the torque enough that they could no longer climb the hills, just the opposite of what I wanted.

Now... if I could have hard wired it to a 12 volt setup, instead of a 24 volt setup, it would have cut the speed in 1/2, but maintained MOST of the torque.

Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho

Edited by - swhenrik on 03/03/2008 13:55:25
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  14:15:27  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
quote:

My son was up to his ears in snow at 25 months.... so he couldn't have learned it any sooner anyway.

Some people like using relays to control different things on a Power Wheels. One of the ideas is to use a light duty switch under the pedal, which then triggers a relay. The relay is a SPDT to act as throttle and brake, just like stock. But, the switch under the pedal is just on or off, which means the relay is either full throttle or full brake, and no way to get that "coast" position. And seemed most didn't believe me that the kids are mentally capable of finding that coast position, so it's nice to hear someone else have the same experience.

I had the 4x4 Bigfoot with my son driving it, pulling a smaller Jeep with my daughter in it. They were driving around the track, and it takes everything the Bigfoot will do to pull that much up the hills. But I wanted to keep the speeds down for safety reasons. Limiting the throttle did almost nothing to reduce the top speed, but cut the torque enough that they could no longer climb the hills, just the opposite of what I wanted.

Now... if I could have hard wired it to a 12 volt setup, instead of a 24 volt setup, it would have cut the speed in 1/2, but maintained MOST of the torque.



Sounds like your kiddo and my kiddo are an anomaly with the stock PW pedal sweet spot... They will probably be up against each other some day in Nascar. Relay On/Off under the pedal seems silly to me. I will do my test that I mentioned earlier with his Hurricane soon. Not everyone has hills in their back yard like you!!! We may not be able to do it tonight as the low is going to be 38 degrees and we would have to take it to my neighborhood park has hills. Brrrr..... Luckily the high on Wednesday is going to be 74. I will try then.

Snow? What's snow?

Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
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PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
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Edited by - BonnerBB on 03/03/2008 14:16:48
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  14:43:04  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by BonnerBB

Sounds like your kiddo and my kiddo are an anomaly with the stock PW pedal sweet spot... They will probably be up against each other some day in Nascar.
That's pretty good..... maybe...
quote:
Originally posted by BonnerBB

Luckily the high on Wednesday is going to be 74. I will try then.

Snow? What's snow?

38 degrees? I WISH it would get that warm one of these days. It was minus 38 a few days back.

What's 74 degrees like anyway? Oh yeah, it's like that here for a couple hours a year, right between the day that it's minus 38, and the day it's 95 above and 100% humidity.

Don't ask why I live here.... I honestly don't know!

Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho

Edited by - swhenrik on 03/03/2008 14:43:25
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gameboy
Moderator

just north of austin
tx
USA



4796 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  15:35:48  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by BonnerBB



Sounds like your kiddo and my kiddo are an anomaly with the stock PW pedal sweet spot...

Snow? What's snow?



nope, mine do it too.


as for snow. havent seen any in a year, and that didnt last a day.

"free is always better"
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  15:43:58  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
quote:


nope, mine do it too.




I bet your kiddos started that when they were 24 months old.

Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

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gameboy
Moderator

just north of austin
tx
USA



4796 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  15:46:48  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by BonnerBB

quote:


nope, mine do it too.




I bet your kiddos started that when they were 24 months old.



i dont remember exactly when they started i just know that they do it. so turn that frown upside down.

"free is always better"
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  15:57:30  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by gameboy

quote:
Originally posted by BonnerBB

quote:


nope, mine do it too.




I bet your kiddos started that when they were 24 months old.



i dont remember exactly when they started i just know that they do it. so turn that frown upside down.



I don't think I like the tone of your 3 smilies!

Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  16:21:08  Show Profile
Swhenrik, just as a suggestion, swap motors and gearboxes to keep speeds down but torque up. One of the jeeps I am in the middle of rebuilding (one of many, got to finish some before starting others) I removed the stock 19t gearboxes and put in 16t ones instead. And I am putting on DCM-266 motors instead of DCM-267's or DCM-231's because the RPM's are lower for those. I figure that way I can pump in the full 24v, and run parallel, without getting ridiculous speeds. If I got my hand on 15t boxes I would use those instead to keep speeds even lower.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  07:06:50  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
The Bigfoot is running #3 gearboxes, so I'm kinda outa luck there. I could go with regular 12 volt motors instead of super 6's, which would drop the speed quite a bit. But I liked the idea of the slower speeds when towing, and being able to do higher speeds when not towing. I guess what I need is a 2 speed gearbox! Too bad those Peg Hi-Torque gearboxes are kinda spendy!

Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho
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Bubba
Journeyman Modder




149 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2008 :  00:01:00  Show Profile
OK I think that with the thumb / twist thottle controller you can not "lock" the thottle in place if you use the "Brake" function of the controller.

If you hit the brake you must fully release the thottle for the controller to provide juice again, it will just start when release the brake.

atleast with the three we have it is that way

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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2008 :  06:58:55  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bubba

OK I think that with the thumb / twist thottle controller you can not "lock" the thottle in place if you use the "Brake" function of the controller.

If you hit the brake you must fully release the thottle for the controller to provide juice again, it will just start when release the brake.

atleast with the three we have it is that way


I do not use the brake function of the controller. I only use the stock PW throttle and brake. I was not wanting to cut/splice/destroy the PW's stock wiring as my Hurricane is still under warranty and I did not want to void it. I removed the spring out of the thumb throttle and tightened it down lightly with a washer in order to be able to keep it at a constant setting. Stock PW foot throttle has the following 3 settings:

Fully Pressed: Motors ON / Brake OFF
Halfway Pressed: Motors OFF / Brake OFF
Not Pressed: Motors OFF / Brake ON

I do not see the the need to use the controller's brake unless you just really like to cut wires or you actually are using the the variable throttle as intended. At that point I think that there were discussions of better braking options on other scooter controllers. But it was my understanding that the stock PW brakes are ON/OFF only. I don't have the time to put in Disk and Drum brakes. HA!

Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
Introduction and Collection
Video's of Projects
Modding Projects Pages
Cool Tools and Resources
What is PWMOT.org

Edited by - BonnerBB on 03/07/2008 07:18:34
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder

Houston
Texas
USA



2225 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2008 :  10:16:56  Show Profile  Visit BonnerBB's Homepage  Send BonnerBB a Yahoo! Message
Alright ladies and gentleman: I did some test with the Jeep Hurricane and the Bonner Governor on a steep hill.

TEST 1:
Jeep Hurricane
Bonner Governor hooked up
Throttle set to 24 volts
Steep Incline

Results= NO GO - obviously the controller is doing its job and I was able to see it limiting the voltage to the motors on the meter.


TEST 2:
Bypassed the Bonner Governor
24 volts direct to Hurricane
Steep Incline

Results= WOW - look at her climb!!!


So - obviously the scooter controller has some sort of built in monitor of the amp draw and lowers the voltage which then entails minimizes the torque at the motors/wheels.

So - here is my next thought... I want to put some sort of toggle switch that will allow me to bypass the PMV controller momentarily when on a steep incline. Sort of like the NOS button but more complicated considering the PMV in a box (Bonner Governor)

Any thoughts?

Here is a picture of the PMV in a box (Bonner Governor) for quick reference and/or refresher as to what the heck I am talking about!







Thanks,
Bonner

NOTICE: I am not on MPW as much as I used to be!! PM me if you have questions about any of my threads!!!
I especially would love a PM from you if you did a project of your own similar to one of mine!!!

PWMOT Hijack Prevention Thread
Introduction and Collection
Video's of Projects
Modding Projects Pages
Cool Tools and Resources
What is PWMOT.org

Edited by - BonnerBB on 03/17/2008 13:33:44
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2008 :  10:50:42  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
Unaclocker did a bypass on a PWM controller on a go-cart. He saw some serious gains when bypassing it. Check it out here:
http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2924

A SPDT switch or relay is all you'd need for a bypass, on the negative line (per discussion in topic above).

Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho
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