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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2008 : 09:28:42
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We picked up a Dora 12 volt Quad (like the Ninja's) for $64 new. Figured it would be a nice one for my daughter to ride, once she learns how. She's 18 months, so it's about that time. But, stock just isn't gonna cut it......
I ordered a Curtis 302-S9 speed control for it, same as I'm running in our Bigfoot. Also a twist throttle, but this time I got the "1/2 grip" style throttle, hoping it will help little hands hold on to it better.
I need 24 volts, so for batteries, I'll either use ones out of something else (8AH's out of Bigfoot or 12AH's out of Jeep), or run 2 of the stock batteries. The nice thing about using the stock ones would be the ease of plugging in, both on the fourwheeler and on the charger.
I'm also in contact with DariansDad to get 2 more #3B gearboxes (pentagon driver) and wheel drivers to convert it to 4wd.
This thing hasn't driven more then 10 feet in it's life, and it was actually a friend's son who drove it.... so I'll never know (or care?) how it performs stock. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 10:44:54
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For wiring, it will be something similar to the Bigfoot final:
The stock throttle pedal will be converted to a brake pedal, and the twist throttle will be all the "go" control. So then I need to decide if I want to change the switch to a DPDT so I can have it tell the ESC to shut down when the pedal is pressed, or just leave it alone.
I also was pondering moving the pedal to make it easier for them to put their foot next to the pedal on the footpeg/footrest without accidentally pressing the pedal or needing to hold their foot up. One thought was to get another footrest like on the left side, and move the pedal so it's sticking out in front. Or take the pedal off and just leave the plunger tip sticking up.... lots of things to look into and think about. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
Edited by - swhenrik on 02/14/2008 10:49:58 |
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marhood
Journeyman Modder
Alexandria
VA
380 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 11:22:50
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Dude, she's 18 months! Better get her a helmet.
We have one of those quads, a Barbie one, and it performs well. I've ridding it a few times and it goes w/ my 175 pound frame on it. |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 11:30:43
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| Oops, I forgot to mention an important fact. It won't be any faster then stock, because it will never see 24 volts to the motors. The high speed lockout will stay in place forever. Low speed on 24 volts is the same as high speed on 12 volts. Our Jeep is set up that way, with the lockout screw. The Bigfoot is hardwired for motors in series (low speed), and there is no high/low switch anymore. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 12:01:15
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I made a bit more progress, but no pics. The speed controller and throttle and stuff showed up from TNC, so I promptly installed it.
Buying the plugs from TNC that plug directly into the stock plugs sure made life easier. I had to swap a couple around, add a couple, but still nice that it will fully unplug. The extra wire for the battery monitor on the throttle, seems to work perfect connected to the "blue" wire from the ESC for the battery indicator. Kinda cool being able to easily see when it's turned on.
I managed to fit the 2nd stock PW battery under the seat, but I had to remove a big chunk of plastic to do it, and the battery is now 1/2 visible from the outside. Oh well.
There's 2 stock PW plugs, soldered to be wired in series, to one plug that plugs into the ESC, in one neat harness. So, I can easily make up another harness with all female spades and inline breakers to run dual Gruber batt's, and just plug it in.
The spring in the new throttle was way to stiff for an 18 month old. So, I took the time to "thin" the spring. A dremel with a sanding drum on it, a LOT of patience, and sacrifice a pair of work gloves..... but it twists much easier now. I'll try to get pics of that too.
I mounted the "1/2 throttle" without putting on the fixed outer portion. We'll see how well it works for the kids. In order to get the rest on, I'll have to trim some plastic.
I still haven't decide on what to do with the brake pedal. My son acted as Guinea pig for testing. With stock wiring, he had to push the pedal down at all times, and then twist the throttle to go. It would add safety, but seemed too confusing. So, I swapped the wires so it was backward, but then he'd have to hold his foot up off the pedal to go, which seems uncomfortable and unsafe. I may still relocate it forward a bit. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
Edited by - swhenrik on 02/20/2008 10:13:42 |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
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gameboy
Moderator
just north of austin
tx
USA
4796 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 11:02:05
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| well, that sucks working in the garage. do you have a heater? |
"free is always better" |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:40:22
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I have a garage.... I have a heater.... but the garage isn't insulated and the wind blows through pretty good, so heating is a lost cause.
But, I also have a family room. It's pretty crowded in there with all the kids toys in there, the PW Nascar, the Lil' Quad, AND the Dora Quad, so Dora got put in the screen porch for now. It's right outside the door, so I can grab it to work on it.
My kids have been spending a LOT of time climbing around on the PW's in the house, and my son drives back and forth a little. It's temping to have TWO cars in there just for chairs for them. And, if they are too far from the TV, they can just drive themselves up closer.  |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
Edited by - swhenrik on 02/20/2008 12:41:04 |
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder
Houston
Texas
USA
2225 Posts |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 15:29:53
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Gearboxes from Dariansdad are installed, and working. I didn't get any pics yet, though I don't feel like it's "complete" yet.
I heavily trimmed the drivers. And trimmed the plastic steering blocks to make more room.
The gearboxes are pointed almost straight up, with the motors behind the "uprights." Zip ties are holding them from rotating backward, but I need to find a better way. I'm thinking I'll weld something up at my parent's house one of these days, but it works for now.
The throttle seems way too touchy, even outside. Seems my son was a bit scared of it, I think because of it taking off rather abruptly. A little practice will help, but I think he's gotten spoiled with the ones with variable speed that operate smoother.
One thing is for sure... the tires on the quads SUCK in the snow! Even with 4wd, it wouldn't move even on packed snow on level ground. So, we got out the Bigfoot, and it cruised right along just fine, even in snow up to a couple inches deep and going uphill. Oh well, it'll work well in the summer, and I'll add traction next winter if needed.
The Bigfoot was acting strange. Seemed to not have any power at time. We'll see how it does when it's a bit warmer out, it was still only like 32 degrees this weekend.
And... my son still just isn't that interested in driving.... no idea why. He kept wanting me to take him for a ride on my fourwheeler. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 20:30:37
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I cut the stock battery plug off, and installed a new plug from TNC scooters that plugs right into the scooter controller, feeding right into the stock harness. Here you can also see the hole I cut to fit the 2nd battery.
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Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
Edited by - swhenrik on 04/19/2008 20:31:59 |
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder
Houston
Texas
USA
2225 Posts |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 20:58:59
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A PW gray battery sits in the stock location, and one directly behind it. Two of the stock connects are wired in series, and to another of the plugs that will plug directly into the scooter controller. The neat thing about this is that I can completely bypass the controller by plugging the stock battery connectors into the stock harness.
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Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 21:06:07
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Front gearboxes:
The wheel driver and gearbox wouldn't fit, so I did some trimming. I didn't get a pic of the wheel driver modification yet... maybe next time it's apart. It's a lot smaller then original. I'm also curious how it will hold up.
I had it all put together with the stock steering blocks. But the alignment varied a lot, toed in going forward, toed out backing up, because of the 4 wheel drive. I also didn't have the gearboxes supported enough. So, today I fixed it right!
A 1/8" thick plate, drilled for the spindle to pass through, and another hole for the bolt from the tie-rod, welded to the spindle. Took a lot of trial and error to get the alignment right. Tack it, check it, bend it, retack it when it popped loose, once in place welded it up solid, and a little bending for fine tweaking.
Then a piece of 5/16" keystock welded to the spindle for gearbox support. More trial and error to get the motors to sit as close as possible to the plastic uprights without actually hitting.
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Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
Edited by - swhenrik on 04/23/2008 07:48:29 |
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gameboy
Moderator
just north of austin
tx
USA
4796 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 21:07:40
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| it is taking YOU forever to load those pics, dial up sucks. |
"free is always better" |
Edited by - gameboy on 04/19/2008 22:42:27 |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 21:12:50
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Bonner.... yep, those are pics from today. Our snow was almost gone, then a couple weeks ago we got 24"++ in about 24 hours. A week later another foot or so. The snowbanks in front of our house were over 5 feet tall. They are down to about 4 feet now.
Gameboy.... You mean it's taking you forever to load them, or me? I'm uploading them with dial-up. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
Edited by - swhenrik on 04/19/2008 21:14:10 |
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BonnerBB
Senior Modder
Houston
Texas
USA
2225 Posts |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 14:12:47
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A couple additions. I ordered a new twist throttle to see if it cures the problem with the throttle being too touchy.
I have the indentical controller in the Bigfoot, but I can't easily swap them because I cut all the connectors off that one. Doh! I highly recommend getting the plugs that will plug into the controller. (See parts list below)
My son put some miles on the Dora Quad last weekend. Other then the non-variable throttle, it performed quite well. I gave a friend a Ninja a few months back for helping me with some plumbing. He had it over and his son was driving it. We just finished up a bunch of landscaping, and then got some torrential downfalls, so we had no shortage of mud. And it was nice thick mud, not the watery stuff.
The 2wd Ninja did surprisingly well in the mud, considering how bad the tires on them suck in the snow. But it still wouldn't hold a candle to the 4wd Dora Quad with roosts off all 4 tires! The Ninja battery didn't seem to like the mud either, and the ride time was semi short. The Dora quad with dual gray batt's was running over twice as long. Sure, I expected some more run time, but didn't expect that much with the 4wd drawing more current.
Even directly comparing the 4wd Quad with the scooter controller to a completely stock 2wd quad with stock switches, I didn't see ANY torque limiting from the controller at any time.
As soon as the 2wd's battery was getting just slightly low, it wouldn't spin it's TWO tires in the sticky mud anymore. The 4wd Quad went in, up to the axles, spin all 4 all the way through, and right out again, lap after lap after lap.
So, again, I'm very pleased with the way it came out mechanically.... except for the throttle issue. In the mean time, my 22 month old daughter drives the Dirt Grinder, as the throttle on that one is VERY smooth. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
Edited by - swhenrik on 06/11/2008 14:27:00 |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 14:14:35
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In case anyone wanted some parts lists:
Two stock 12 volt "gray" batteries, with standard PW "vehicle side" plugs.
Two more #3B gearboxes (pentagon drivers) with 12 volt motors
Two "Jeep" style drivers. Trimmed a LOT to fit.
Order list from TNC scooters:
Item Name: Half Twist Throttle Cable (Hall Effect) with 24 Volt LED Meter
Item Number: 101105
Quantity: 1
Total: $10.00 USD
Item Name: 2 Pin Modular Connector
Item Number: 101161
Quantity: 1
Total: $0.50 USD
Item Name: 24V Controller (Model CT-302S9)
Item Number: 101180
Quantity: 1
Total: $15.00 USD
Item Name: 3 Pin Modular Connector
Item Number: 101162
Quantity: 2
Total: $1.00 USD
Item Name: 6 Pin Modular Connector
Item Number: 101164
Quantity: 1
Total: $0.50 USD
Item Name: 2 Pin (Battery / Motor) Modular Connector
Item Number: 101165
Quantity: 4
Total: $2.00 USD
Cart Subtotal: $29.00 USD
Shipping: $7.15 USD
Cart Total: $36.15 USD
Added later:
Item Name: 2 Wire Ignition Assembly
Item Number: 101220
Quantity: 1
Total: $5.00 USD
Item Name: Charging Receptacle
Item Number: 101240
Quantity: 1
Total: $3.00 USD
I didn't order a charger, as the one for the Dirt Grinder is also 24 volts and will plug in to this plug. I may still order another charger. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
Edited by - swhenrik on 07/31/2008 08:13:36 |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
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Larsonator
Journeyman Modder
Lyman
ME
USA
151 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2008 : 15:01:27
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| did you end up moving the stock throttle pedal forward, and swapping the wires so you have to step on it for the brake? |
Thanks,
Eric
*lifted 18v Titan Lil Wrangler
*dual gearbox/super 6/12v Lil Wrangler
*18v Bigfoot
*18v Dora Quad
*Stock 12v Barbie Jeep
*Metal Frame jeep, with plans for suspension |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 14:53:01
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| I did swap the wires so it goes without pushing the pedal. And I did remove the pedal and switch.... but haven't mounted it anywhere yet. So, it's just dangling there for now. I should get a couple more pics when I pull it out of the camper tonight. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
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Larsonator
Journeyman Modder
Lyman
ME
USA
151 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 17:16:52
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| so, you have it rigged up so pushing the stock throttle would be the brake, but it's just dangling? I need to look at my, I mean her, quad a little better and see if I can think of a way to rig the pedal up so it wont be in the way, but is easily used as a brake. |
Thanks,
Eric
*lifted 18v Titan Lil Wrangler
*dual gearbox/super 6/12v Lil Wrangler
*18v Bigfoot
*18v Dora Quad
*Stock 12v Barbie Jeep
*Metal Frame jeep, with plans for suspension |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
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crazyjoezx
New Member
davie
FL
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2008 : 15:45:54
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| so those gear boxes will hold up to the 24v?...i would love to bump up my kids car to 24v but i hear it would kill the gears i have :( |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2008 : 14:59:37
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quote:
Originally posted by crazyjoezx
so those gear boxes will hold up to the 24v?...i would love to bump up my kids car to 24v but i hear it would kill the gears i have :(
From the 1st page:
quote:
Originally posted by swhenrik
....it will never see 24 volts to the motors. The high speed lockout will stay in place forever. Low speed on 24 volts is the same as high speed on 12 volts.
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Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 14:38:08
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I made an error in the build, and just realized I never mentioned it here. This quad came with #7 19T gearboxes in the back, not #3B's like I thought. So I actually have a mismatch front to rear. I can't change the front over to #7's, as they aren't likely to fit. Comparing gear ratios:
#3B - 121.9:1
#7 19T - 123.7:1
I'm pretty close, so I'm just going to leave it like this. I haven't noticed any pulling or erratic steering.
The throttle is still touchy. Some day maybe I'll try a different controller in it. My daughter has gotten some practice on the Dirt Grinder, so she's doing OK driving this one.
Just so I can say that I tried it... I removed the high speed lockout screw and let my son run it 24 volts, for just a minute. It was pretty quick, but didn't seem twice as fast. Still too fast to be safe for a plastic-tire vehicle IMO. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
Edited by - swhenrik on 09/12/2008 14:38:34 |
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Merlin
New Member
Bixby
ok
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 18:50:09
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I noticed that in our revised diagram you have a resistor on the brake switch. what does it do and what rating is the resistor?
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Engineering the impossible |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2008 : 09:35:02
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As soon as I posted that diagram, I noticed that it wasn't correct, including the resistor.... I have no idea if there is actually a resistor or not.... I'm guessing not.
I also show only a forward/reverse switch, when actually there's also a high/low switch.... just that it's locked out to not allow high speed. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
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Merlin
New Member
Bixby
ok
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 22:37:03
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Im also having an issue trying to understand what you are doing with the brake switch. in your first diagram, when the brake is applied you close the brake circuit, but what are you doing to the motor side?
are you cutting power to them or what? also in your second diagram, you have gotten rid of the entire braking circuit and replaced it with just the motor side.
What would happen if you only hooked the brake switch to just the brake circuit? |
Engineering the impossible |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 09:01:26
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The first diagram is what I did on the Bigfoot, not what I did on the Dora Quad. On the Bigfoot diagram, I had a DPDT switch. One side of the switch would short 2 wires together from the controller, which simply told the controller to shut down. The other side of the switch worked exactly the same as a stock PW switch.
On the Dora Quad, I skipped the controller shut-down circuit completely, as it didn't serve a functional purpose. It is inteded to shut the controller down when a mechanical brake is applied, not for an electrical brake. When you tell the controller to shut down, it doesn't do anything to help with braking. That's why I kept the stock electric braking in place.
The switch that is shown on the Dora wiring diagram is the stock SPDT throttle/plunger switch.
Look at how the stock switch works..... In one position, the motor is connect to the battery. In the other position the motor is disconnected from the battery and connected back to the other lead of the motor to short it out for brakes.
Essentially all I did with the Dora quad, is take the output from the controller, and feed it directly into the quad where the battery used to connect. Then swap 2 wires on the throttle/brake switch to make it go when up and stop when down, opposite of stock. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
Edited by - swhenrik on 10/02/2008 09:05:44 |
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Merlin
New Member
Bixby
ok
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 12:57:43
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i got ya now. I diddn't know that the brake circuit only shut off the controller. I though that it actually shorted the motors and caused them to brake.
so you could wire up the brake circuit to a pressure switch so that the child has to be sitting in the car to make it go. This may be more helpful that expected.
thanks again |
Engineering the impossible |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 13:36:47
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You could do that, but every time they hit a bump, the pressure switch may close, shutting it down. If the throttle is held, it returns to full throttle as soon as the switch opens again. Each bump would cause a sudden jarr on the gearboxes. It would also allow the kids to push the pedal all the way, not knowing, and when they sit fully, it takes off full throttle.
I installed key switches on 2 of the kids vehicles, and the Dirt Grinder has one. I am trying to teach the kids to shut the key off BEFORE they get off. That eliminates some of the dangers of them accidentally hitting the throttle when climbing on/off. And is a key I can take away if they don't listen  |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
Edited by - swhenrik on 10/02/2008 13:38:30 |
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swhenrik
Moderator
Pengilly
MN
USA
4067 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 15:12:23
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Update on this one. When I ordered a new controller for the Bigfoot, I actually installed it in the Dora Quad first to see if it solves the touchy throttle issue. Sure enough, it did. The throttle is MUCH easier to control now, and my daughter (2.5 years) can easily vary the speed. I wish I had tried changing it out sooner. The original controller was a Curtis CT302S9. The one I put in is a Yi yun brand? LBD-14. The CT302S9 in the Bigfoot works really well, so I can't it's because the LBD-14 is a better controller.
The tires on this fourwheeler are horrible in the snow. So, I decided to try the BMX tire mod. WOW what a difference. This thing wouldn't go anywhere in the snow before. After the BMX tires, it would go just about anyplace it was pointed. It's even better then the 4wd Bigfoot, which I thought was pretty impressive in the snow. In fact my son would bury the Dirt Grinder up to the axles, then park it and get on the Dora quad. |
Projects: Jeep, Bigfoot, Lil' Quad, Dora Quad, Dirt Grinder, Nascar, Intro, Ultimate Gaucho |
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Project Dora Quad
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