These forums are archived!
Please create a new account at our new forums here: http://forum.modifiedpowerwheels.com
ModifiedPowerWheels.com powerwheels upgrades, peg-perego and others very welcome

Specializing in Peg Perego and Power Wheels Parts and Machines
Udemy Course
Home | My Files | Profile | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ | RSS allows you to view new posts anywhere!!
 All Forums
 Personal Stuff - Introductions, forsale, reviews!
 Projects Pages! (blogs?)
 '98 Jeep Wrangler
 Forum Locked
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

wickedways
Moderator



Northbridge
MA
USA

756 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2007 :  00:08:27  Show Profile
Paid $50 for this.
Owner claims the batteries will only last 20mins, needs new batteries. I charge 'em up, my daughter drove out of the garage down the one car lane driveway, and i had to push it back up. I believe she meant 2 seconds. Anyhow, my intentions was to do a complete overhaul/make over/modifications to it prior to Xmas for my 4.5yr old duaghter and my 1.5yr old son (passenger)

Forthcoming Changes/mods:
12v to 18v (six pack)
New slightly faster motors
Gas and Brake pedal
Reinforce Rowbar w/lights
Nitrous Switch
Bigger Wheels
Head/Tail lights


Before:



After:


GEARBOX
Interesting enough, all gears appears to be in great condition. After I removed all of the grease, I started to take measurements on certain areas of the gearbox. I notice that each gear in place, spins freely, with no resistance except for the 4th gear. Comparing both gearboxes, it seems to be a design rather than a flaw, or perhaps a design flaw? The picture below shows where its getting its snug fit from, and its not from the whole stem, only from the top lip as it flares out, which is sorta cheesey in my book.


55.29 KB

I'm tempting to sand it down so the gear will spin freely like the rest, as I'm no engineer, not sure if that would decrease its life expectancy now that the drive gear has some slop. I still think resistance under no load is not a good thing. I notice on both of my gearboxes, the housing on one of each casing has some rubbing, around 90degress worth of area that are what looks to me are friction from the wheel hubs when the jeep sits putting pressure down. Is this normal? Picture below points to it, although not a very good pictue of the gouges.


61.58 KB

Anyways it's late or early, and I'll finish the rest up of what i'm doing, everything so far is examiming, taking measurements, order parts and misc, and painting.

--------
Let the Modding ßegin!

Edited by - wickedways on 11/06/2007 22:41:46

swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2007 :  09:18:58  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by wickedways

Paid $50 for this.
Forthcoming Changes/mods:
12v to 18v (six pack)
New slightly faster motors
Gas and Brake pedal
Reinforce Rowbar w/lights
Nitrous Switch
Bigger Wheels
Head/Tail lights

GEARBOX
Interesting enough, all gears appears to be in great condition. After I removed all of the grease, I started to take measurements on certain areas of the gearbox. I notice that each gear in place, spins freely, with no resistance except for the 4th gear. Comparing both gearboxes, it seems to be a design rather than a flaw, or perhaps a design flaw? The picture below shows where its getting its snug fit from, and its not from the whole stem, only from the top lip as it flares out, which is sorta cheesey in my book.

I'm tempting to sand it down so the gear will spin freely like the rest, as I'm no engineer, not sure if that would decrease its life expectancy now that the drive gear has some slop. I still think resistance under no load is not a good thing. I also list below the teeth of each gear for my #7 gearboxes.

I notice on both of my gearboxes, the housing on one of each casing has some rubbing, around 90degress worth of area that are what looks to me are friction from the wheel hubs when the jeep sits putting pressure down. Is this normal? Picture below points to it, although not a very good pictue of the gouges.

Anyways it's late or early, and I'll finish the rest up of what i'm doing, everything so far is examiming, taking measurements, order parts and misc, and painting.



18 volts, faster motors, AND bigger tires? I think ONE of those alone would be all the gearboxes will handle.

Keep in mind with the dragging issues of the main gear.... there is no "weight" on the gearboxes, it is floating free on the axle. The gearbox simply applies a torque to the tires. The gearbox then needs to be restrained to keep it from rotating. That is done by contacting the chassis somewhere. Resisting a torque (of the gearbox) with a single contact point (on the chassis) applies a force on the gearbox against the driver/axle. No matter what you do to the gearbox, that force will still be there. It's possible to rig up a complicated linkage to eliminate that force, but....

The last driven gear, the one that connects to the wheel/driver, is not neutral inside the gearbox. The torque is neutral, but again there is a force that is applied to that gear at a specific point, the contact teeth of the gear driving it, that will push it against the inside of the gearbox case.

So, no matter how much you free things up, those forces will still be there, and still cause some rubbing.
Go to Top of Page

swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2007 :  09:27:03  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
The numbers on the gears don't match the number of teeth. The final gear has 54 teeth, not 98.

Using your numbers
98/17 97/19 97/25 97/19 would give a ratio of 583:1, when it should be closer to 124:1

Changing the 98 to 54 of final gear:
54/17 97/19 97/25 97/19 still gives 321:1


Edited by - swhenrik on 11/06/2007 09:27:56
Go to Top of Page

wickedways
Moderator

Northbridge
MA
USA



756 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2007 :  22:40:41  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by swhenrik
18 volts, faster motors, AND bigger tires? I think ONE of those alone would be all the gearboxes will handle.



You're joking right? There's plenty here pushing 24v to say the least and running the gearboxes, not too mention other mods along with it. 18v with DCM 231 and possibly with bigfoot tires or even go a few inches more than the worn out flat tires i have now would personally be a good balance, if not, then these PW ain't worth modding.

quote:
Originally posted by swhenrik
The numbers on the gears don't match the number of teeth. The final gear has 54 teeth, not 98.



you're right.. its even on my notes, but hey, i did mentioned it was late, so yeah.. errr... thats my excuse and I'm sticking with it.


--------
Let the Modding ßegin!

Edited by - wickedways on 11/06/2007 22:44:05
Go to Top of Page

Bubba
Journeyman Modder




149 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2007 :  00:02:57  Show Profile
Taller tires will add a lot of stress to the higher speed gearboxes

and adding a higher speed motor will change the stall speed

If you go with a faster motor and taller tires you will be restricting
the riding to flat level ground / roadways and you will need to watch out for those high speed "bumps" if the tires break traction and the grab traction SNAP goes a gear in the end result in MANY cases...

Billy broke his first gear by go full thottle over the curb into a flower bed.. as soon as the rear end came down on the soft dirt and he got traction... teeth where rung off the gear.

And 24 with a scooter control is not the same as just pumping 24 volts to the motors, with the ESC you have soft start and more control over the speed.

It is just a little bit more than running 18 volts and for me the motors run cooler.

http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3025

We run two sets of GB / Motors /tire combo
We have a high torque set we use for the grass with a set of 10.5" tire
We have a High speed set we use with 14" tires for speed on a concrete track.

If we where to try and use the High speed setup in the grass it would just poke around the yard and run down the batteries and wear out the motors faster.

It really has to do with the rider weight and riding surface as to the combo you can get away with.

Go to Top of Page

swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2007 :  09:17:54  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by wickedways

You're joking right? There's plenty here pushing 24v to say the least and running the gearboxes, not too mention other mods along with it. 18v with DCM 231 and possibly with bigfoot tires or even go a few inches more than the worn out flat tires i have now would personally be a good balance

Some of the members on here have an on-going joke about 24 volts. There have been a LOT of people who have tried it. Most people get a few minutes to a few days out of it, and the joke is "yet another example of why to NOT do that." There are a couple pushing 24 volts with decent reliability, with some "precautions" built in. Some use a scooter controller to avoid the instant on/off. No one, that I recall, has gotten away with 24 volts in combination with ANY other mod.

There's a post from years past from TiddlerRacer. He experimented with (and destroyed) numerous different options. He talked about having success with 18 volts, OR higher geared tire/gearbox combinations, OR faster motors.... BUT putting any 2 together caused a very short life. Putting 3 together pretty much gaurantees failure will come quickly.

quote:
Originally posted by wickedways

....if not, then these PW ain't worth modding.
Exactly... if you want more then a slight increase in speed, you'll probably want to just look into getting a go-cart.... that seems to be the consensus from all the members who have tried anything more then mild performance mods. That's why everyone recommends 18 volts instead of 24 volts. That's why many people do NOT run traction bands, and the recommendation is to never run traction bands with 18 volts.

Edited by - swhenrik on 11/07/2007 09:18:41
Go to Top of Page

wickedways
Moderator

Northbridge
MA
USA



756 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2007 :  13:10:29  Show Profile
Yeah, I need to have a mindset that i'm not working on cars anymore, but i'm sticking with 18v, which is the basic upgrade most people do, upgrade up to 6 more volts. Also, at least on paper, it will be run on 12v until they engage the so called "nitrous" button adding 6v more.

The motors, although the 231 are a slight upgrade to the stock, it is almost as close to a direct replacement from what I read, so perhaps the new motors aren't really an upgrade, just a replacement.

You're right about the big tires, and I'll have to ponder on how big i'm going to go. I know they don't make my tires anymore, however there is a replacement for it and I just might go with that. Thanks for all your inputs and concerns.

--------
Let the Modding ßegin!
Go to Top of Page

wickedways
Moderator

Northbridge
MA
USA



756 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2007 :  22:05:43  Show Profile
Update:

Finally, thru all the obstacles of life and leisure, I finally got this one done for the most part. I added new motors, pinion gears, 18v with nitrous switch, and head/tail lights, not too mention a whole new paint job. All stock parts been overhauled, tested and/or improved. Only thing left now is a couple seat belts and a secure bracket for the rear batteries. It won't be driven till Xmas or shortly after.

It was my first mod(s) and although I'm somewhat disappointed, you can only improve thru repetition so I do have more vehicles to do, and if my daughter loves this vehicle, that would be a great satisfaction.


96.57 KB



89.18 KB


96.47 KB


87.47 KB


26.14 KB


22.07 KB


75.98 KB

"Saving the landfills, one Power Wheels at a time."
XPWMNE Club President
'98 PW Jeep (not updated)
PW/Peg Jeep Wheelie (not updated)
Go to Top of Page

treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2007 :  01:16:46  Show Profile
Looks good. Comments on 18v, bigger tires and dcm-231s after some experimentation myself. The dcm-231s are higher rpm than stock by a good deal. They are a closer match to the super-6 motors, not the motors used on the jeeps and other modern vehicles using the #7 gearboxes. And they are really only designed to work with 12v.

I've played with various commbinations of 18v, 21t gearboxes, larger Silverado tires and dcm-231s. Basically, I can use any two of those over stock without tripping the stock PW breakers. If I move to any three of those I had to upgrade to non-pw batteries (gruber) and run a seperate 30amp circuit breaker. That tells me that there is a lot of stress on the system under that setup. I haven't really tried running a combination of all four because using any mix of the three already got pretty violent acceleration and very good high speed. I couldn't imagine the motors, wiring and gearboxes holding up to a combination of all four. And there is no way they would survive 24v.

Personally I have settled on 12v, silverado tires, 21t gearboxes and dcm-231 motors and have had no problems with running 1 child in it. I really don't feel comfortable with that setup with two kids though.

If you really want to run 18v, bigger tires, 21t gearboxes, etc I would suggest using dcm-266 motors which are stronger and designed to use up to 24v (but still think gearboxes would fail at 24v without moving to a soft start/stop setup like you would get using a speed controller).

But if you don't mind busting parts, have fun and experiment away. You could get lucky and everything will hold up.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock

Edited by - treebeme on 12/21/2007 01:20:52
Go to Top of Page

wickedways
Moderator

Northbridge
MA
USA



756 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2007 :  10:37:59  Show Profile
I have backup Gear boxes, motors although I'm not anticipating that it will break down any time soon, so that is why I didnt' switch to bigger tires. I kept the stock ones, that are actually alittle smaller, 10" to be exact. Again, 18v only gets kicked in with a flip of the switch, and for now i may not even tell her about that till she fine tune her driving skills.

"Saving the landfills, one Power Wheels at a time."
XPWMNE Club President
'98 PW Jeep (not updated)
PW/Peg Jeep Wheelie (not updated)
Go to Top of Page

Batteries Included
Senior Modder

Deltona
Florida
USA



1474 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2007 :  20:51:06  Show Profile
Being from Florida I gotta say I dig the palm trees even if they're pink. My wife loves it.

Excellent.
Go to Top of Page

TiddlerRacer
Senior Modder

Adrian
MI
USA



1849 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2007 :  11:03:56  Show Profile
That Jeep is sweet, nice work!

DCM-231's with bigger tires and 18V should be fine as long as no traction devices are used adn the laods are kept to a minimum. I ran that combo for a long time with minimal issue, however most of that run time (probably 95%) was with one child on a flat surface.
Go to Top of Page

wickedways
Moderator

Northbridge
MA
USA



756 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2007 :  15:53:09  Show Profile
Yeah, I HAD to add some pink to it considering its maily for my daughter and I really didn't want to paint it all pink either. I picked up the vinyl stickers in Hawaii, basically all the stickers represents Hawaii. My daughter weighs only 30lbs. being at 4-1/2yrs old, very petite, and my son who's 1-1/2 weighs at 21lbs. I'll be creating a 3 pnt. harness for both of them. Thanks for the comments!

"Saving the landfills, one Power Wheels at a time."
XPWMNE Club President
'98 PW Jeep (not updated)
PW/Peg Jeep Wheelie (not updated)
Go to Top of Page

colinandmylesmom
Senior Modder



USA



2351 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2007 :  12:38:40  Show Profile
I like the metal sheeting looking stuff on the floor, and nice subtle touches of the flowers,stickers to make it more feminine. Rugged, yet cute!



Go to Top of Page

wickedways
Moderator

Northbridge
MA
USA



756 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2007 :  13:03:42  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by colinsmom

I like the metal sheeting looking stuff on the floor, and nice subtle touches of the flowers,stickers to make it more feminine. Rugged, yet cute!



That diamond deck is actually 1/4" thick, took measurements and cut it on a water jet at work, and then bend it using a hydraulic finger break due to its thickness. It's a bit overkill I know, but its the only size we have in the shop. Same with the plexiglass window, its made out of Lexan, 1/4" thick as well, and somewhat bullet proof.. and yes, its the only stuff we had available but it works. Thank you!

"Saving the landfills, one Power Wheels at a time."
XPWMNE Club President
'98 PW Jeep (not updated)
PW/Peg Jeep Wheelie (not updated)
Go to Top of Page

Batteries Included
Senior Modder

Deltona
Florida
USA



1474 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2007 :  14:49:17  Show Profile
quote:
...somewhat bullet proof...


That is funny. Now she can chase down the bad guys without worry.

Excellent.
Go to Top of Page

gameboy
Moderator

just north of austin
tx
USA



4796 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2007 :  17:45:09  Show Profile
verry nice work on the aluminum...

and overkill is what we are about.

"free is always better"

Edited by - gameboy on 12/23/2007 17:46:48
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 Forum Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
 Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05