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glassdoctor
New Member




19 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  10:57:18  Show Profile
I just got a controller from TNC (LBD14) and a hall effect thumb throttle. There are no directions, and no controller inputs that say "throttle". And the throttle is used with the wires simply cut... no connector to match to a controller input or anything.

I assume the "derailleur" connector is for the throttle?

Any comments on which wires from the throttle (4) go to which wires on the controller (3) input?

I know this isn't complicated stuff, but I would rather not just guess and smoke the controller before I can even try it out.

Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  15:35:23  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Here is the wiring diagram for the controller. I have no idea what the derailler or the pilot light is for. When I talked to chris there he said the CT-302S9 is the best one to get. That one has the least amount of returns and/or troubles. I would see if you can return it and get that one. Its actually $5 less than the one you got. Plus its a lot simpler to use. When I had to install my thumb throttle Chris told me you use green, red and black. Yellow is for the LED lights(speed indicators). On the controller I have there is a 6wire connector that has the same colors as the thumb throttle except gray on the connector goes to the yellow wire on throttle. When you go back to TNC website and right below each controller you will see another link that says(click here to view ***** product specifications). Here is your link for your controller http://www.tncscooters.com/LBD14.php Good luck Jeff

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(currently being modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
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glassdoctor
New Member




19 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  17:48:38  Show Profile
Thanks.

I got the stuff from tncscooters. I got a little tip from their ebay listing that showed a wiring info they don't have on the website, that said what the green and yellow wires were for on the throttle.

Anyway, I went ahead and hooked up the throttle to the derailleur connector by way of process of elimination. All the other wires were labled as something else and it had three wires. I guess it's just poor translation to English.

So it seems like all systems are a go... once I jumpered the "lock" wires to turn it on. ;)

I picked this controller based on the motor watt ratings... quite a bit higher than most of the others.

I will update when it's done.

It's going in a Peg Perego Gator that I have torn apart and modded before but I wasn't happy with the relay setup.

I hope this controller setup works well.

Next will be scooter style motors if the stock gearboxes give out.
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glassdoctor
New Member




19 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  17:56:16  Show Profile
Oh yeah, just to make clear in case anyone else wants to know... this is for the "thumb" throttle with the three led lights for power, hi, low (battery indicators)

Throttle has four wires.
red, black, green, yellow

"Derailleur" connector has three wires.
red, black, blue

Make these connections:
red/red, black/black, green/blue

Yellow can be connected to the main 24v source battery, positive terminal. This will make the leds on the throttle light up.
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Jamesonsdad
Journeyman Modder

Fayetteville
Georgia
USA

342 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2006 :  21:00:23  Show Profile
Glad you were able to figure it out.
Be careful not to send voltage to the controller through the brake wires...it doesn't like it.
I also went with the LBD-14 because of its power capacity-and it did work fine on a unibody Jeep with 700 series motors. This time I ordered the LB-27 as it was cheaper and still was rated for 30 amps.
I'm a bit confused on how these contoller are rated for power as they have both a motor wattage range and a max amperage.
Anyway, the LBD-14 stayed cool to the touch, even after turning an HTI700 motor into a smoke bomb, so it works pretty good.

Power Wheels, How bad have you got it?


See my project page:http://www.ryanhull.com/forums2/weblog.php?w=9
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sporty982000
Journeyman Modder


illinois
USA

231 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2006 :  09:24:36  Show Profile  Visit sporty982000's Homepage
Since I have recently assembled a electric scooter through various parts, burnt a few controllers in the past from connecting it up.

I have come to a few fore thoughts.

1, alot of controllers are not the same, a wiring diagram helps you figure out some of the controller.

However, lights, turn signals and brake and power indicator and speed indicator can all be a bit hard to fugure out.


getting the basics to work, motor, controller are not to hard to do.



Do keep in mind, that the lock, needs connected, on/off witch, some have two wires, and some have three wires.

there is only typically two power wires on a controller going OUT !

the power to the motor and the 4.3 volts, typically going out to power the power/indicator,turn signals/lights.


I have seen - blue, red, orange, be a hot wire

black / brown and sometimes green a ground wire.

these controllers fry fast, if not connected right !


also if you have gotten scooter parts, like the indicator panel and lights, some are rated 24 volts and some 36 volts, the bulbs also are rated to what was initially used for.

It would be a great way to add turn signals, lights to the power wheel.
sporty
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ancb
New Member



USA

27 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2006 :  13:00:37  Show Profile
Do these controllers need to be switched off when not in use so not to run the battery down?
Sporty, you mentioned you need to connect the "lock" connector to an on/off switch - is this not only so the controller will operate (when on), but also because you need to turn it off?
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tchapin
New Member

brighton
mi
USA

10 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2006 :  10:04:23  Show Profile
Most likely you will need a relay switch to turn off the power to the controller. I would guess the controller will suck a little power out of the batteries as it sets.

I started this mod early in the spring and finally got time to get it up and running. I got a 300 watt motor with a built in controller, put in bearing and used the stock axle to create a true posi track barbie rat jeep. The batteries are 2 18 amp hour bricks that should run the jeep for over an hour straight. The mod isn't complete but up and kind of running. I temp. mounted the thumb throttle to the steering wheel. With the true posi track and stock plastic tires, the jeep doesn't turn well yet. (next mod) Also with the built in controller, the jeep lost brakes and reverse. The current setup goes faster than my 9 year old (test pilot) wants to run it. It will give his pukka mini bike a run for it money (pukka tops out around 20 mph.) Like others said it is amazing how fast kids pick up on counter steering and power slides. The 5 year old loves the new rat jeep. Please hold the safety comments of no brakes to your self. The 5 year old mastered the first rat jeep with no brakes last year. Even got very good at full speed reverse. That mod ran close to 15 mph. before having the gearbox lock up and burn up the motor. With practice and monitoring, brakes and reverse are just extras.

This mod isnít for everyone. It will run the jeep way faster that it was made for. If you do it and just let the kids go or let other kids run it, be prepare for problems.
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ancb
New Member



USA

27 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2006 :  12:51:07  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by tchapin

Most likely you will need a relay switch to turn off the power to the controller.

Thanks tchapin,
Why do you say you'll need a relay? I was assuming a small, low amp, spst switch would work fine.

And to confirm, I emailed Chris at TNCScooters and he said you do need to turn off the controller to prevent draining the battery.

So, how in the world do you get a three year old to remember to turn off the switch every time they use it?
I'm thinking of one of those switches that have a light in them.
I like the "pressure activated" seat switch idea but my son likes to occassionaly stand up while he's driving his quad.

Maybe a momentary switch under the gas pedal that gets turned on when you push the gas pedal.
If you're using the variable speed gas pedal conversion maybe you could cleverly mount one of these - http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/SMS-220/search/SPDT_MINI-SNAP-ACTION_SWITCH_W__LEVER_.html
so the gas pedal could still travel up and down without the switch turning back off until released all the way.
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Jamesonsdad
Journeyman Modder

Fayetteville
Georgia
USA

342 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2006 :  21:03:04  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by tchapin



If you do it and just let the kids go or let other kids run it, be prepare for problems.





That's why I put a keyed switch in mine. It only cost a couple of bucks and no one rides until an adult comes up with the key. Oh, and it stops the battery drain problem too!


Power Wheels, How bad have you got it?


See my project page:http://www.ryanhull.com/forums2/weblog.php?w=9
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tchapin
New Member

brighton
mi
USA

10 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2006 :  08:43:25  Show Profile
My motor/controll setup is one unit. Power wires going into the motor along with throttle wires. Only way to kill the power to the controller is to kill the power at the motor wires. I need a switch that can handle the 40/50 amps that will be going thru the motor wires. That is why I needed a relay. If the motor and controller are seperate, then most likely the controller has a key switch lead that would only need a very low amp rated switch.
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Jamesonsdad
Journeyman Modder

Fayetteville
Georgia
USA

342 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  13:32:53  Show Profile
Some more info for the motor wire hookups: the blue is positive and the white is negative.

Nothing will fry if you hook these up wrong, the motors will just turn backwards.


Power Wheels, How bad have you got it?


See my project page:http://www.ryanhull.com/forums2/weblog.php?w=9
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sporty982000
Journeyman Modder


illinois
USA

231 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  15:47:51  Show Profile  Visit sporty982000's Homepage
ANCB,

Sorry I did not reply sooner,

I sometimes dont have the time to check all the new postings.




a momentary switch should work and is a clever idea on how to solve the problem.

I did read, you had talked with TNC scooters.

So you were able to find out, that yes you need to have it off or the battery runs down.

You could also just put in a on/off switch with a light, I am pretty sure autozone would have something to handle the amps.

But still, like you mentioned. The 3 year old would have to turn it off.

It might be something you will have to teach him and be there when he first uses it and when hes done.

Sporty
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2006 :  10:08:26  Show Profile
So, just to review options I've seen in this thread (along with what I see at tnc scooters), I would like to purchase a thumb throttle ($8) and the yk48-2 controller ($28) (24v with reverse) in order to replace all my existing electrical parts (besides the batteries and motor).

In addition, I would need a forward/reverse switch to connect to the controller and a brake switch (use the existing foot pedal or mount a momentary switch on wheel for the left thumb) and would use new heavier gauge wire.

The question I have is that the forward/reverse connection on the controller indicates that it is also an ignition switch. Does this mean that when that is 'off' that the power is truly cut so that there is no need for a seperate ignition switch to fully cut power to the controller when not in use? And if so, could I buy the ignition switch from a gas engine model and use the 'starter' position to have that wire connect the third wire needed to tell the controller to go into reverse? That way my kids would just turn the ignition key more to the right to go backwards.

And does the brake really brake or just cut power to the batteries and let it freewheel?

Edited by - treebeme on 12/28/2006 10:35:17
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Jamesonsdad
Journeyman Modder

Fayetteville
Georgia
USA

342 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2006 :  04:56:10  Show Profile
Tree, yes it would appear that using an ignition switch would enable reverse as long as it would connect all three wires from the controller together in the "crank" position.
The brake connection simply kills power to the controller, it will not provide any braking action. With the speeds you'll get from this set-up you will really need brakes.
K-man came up with a great solution to this problem. Simply wire your controller in the stock circuit before the brake switch and reverse the wiring on the brake switch so up is on and down is brakes. This way you don't need a reversable controller since the stock shifter will give you hi/lo range and reverse.



Power Wheels, How bad have you got it?


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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2006 :  05:29:34  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by treebeme

So, just to review options I've seen in this thread (along with what I see at tnc scooters), I would like to purchase a thumb throttle ($8) and the yk48-2 controller ($28) (24v with reverse) in order to replace all my existing electrical parts (besides the batteries and motor).

In addition, I would need a forward/reverse switch to connect to the controller and a brake switch (use the existing foot pedal or mount a momentary switch on wheel for the left thumb) and would use new heavier gauge wire.

The question I have is that the forward/reverse connection on the controller indicates that it is also an ignition switch. Does this mean that when that is 'off' that the power is truly cut so that there is no need for a seperate ignition switch to fully cut power to the controller when not in use? And if so, could I buy the ignition switch from a gas engine model and use the 'starter' position to have that wire connect the third wire needed to tell the controller to go into reverse? That way my kids would just turn the ignition key more to the right to go backwards.

And does the brake really brake or just cut power to the batteries and let it freewheel?



I spent a few hours last night thinking about this and reading other threads and answered alot of my own questions. I understand that the brake referenced in this particular controller is just a bypass that cuts power so that the motors freewheel.

Using the YK 48-2 I would make the following connections. This will in effect leave the kid with a key switch for overall power, a forward/neutral/reverse switch and a throttle (probably thumb). If I can't get the throttle to properly flip the brake relay automatically I will have to hook up a brake switch (use what use to be the throttle foot pedal).

Power Connector - Run to two 12v batteries in serial. Have a key switch interrupting the positive wire.

Motor Connector - Run to a DPDT relay which then connects the motors in parallel or serial. This relay will be triggered by the Forward/Reverse switch. In forward the motors will run in Parallel. In reverse the motors will run in Serial.

Ignition/Forward/Reverse - This is assuming using the YK48-2 that has reverse. Run an SPST Relay that will connect the Blue and Yellow Wire and an SPST Relay that will connect the Blue and Red Wire. There will be a seperate DPCO Switch (F/N/R) that controls this. The DPCO switch would be connected to the key switch for power. When in Forward it will trigger the SPST Relay for the Blue and Yellow wires. In reverse it will trigger the SPST Relay for the Blue and Yellow wires as well as the SPST Relay for the Blue and Red wires as well as the DPDT relay for the High/Low in the motor connection. I would also possibly hook up back up lights and a chirper to the DPCO switch when in reverse.

Derailleur (Throttle) - This just connects the three wires from the throttle to the three wires on the controller. I might play around this to see if I can use this to flip a the brake relay when the throttle is off rather than using a manual brake pedal in regards to safety.

Charger Connector - I probably will not use this.

Brake Signal Connector - Run to brake lights directly (LED).

Pilot Lamp - I'm assuming this is just power for an On lamp. I will use this to connect to LED running lights.

Brake Connector - This will connect to a DPDT relay. This will hopefully be triggered by the throttle going on to disconnect this. That way the brakes would be automatic by turning the throttle off. Otherwise I will trigger it using a brake pedal (formerly the throttle peddle). This will run to a resistor that will be connected to the positive and negative motor wires. When the brake is activated it will tell the controller through the Brake Connector to cut power to the motors and will open a circuit to the resistor to short the motors.

And that's about it. If using a controller without reverse I would replace the SPST relays will a DPDT relay that would switch polarity on the motors and I could use a potentiometer instead of a resistor on the brake for adjustable brakes but everything else looks solid to me.

Edited by - treebeme on 12/29/2006 05:50:55
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2006 :  17:54:00  Show Profile
I've given up trying to think I can rig the brakes to work off of the throttle being off. And I'd rather not depend on a brake pedal for now (picturing my panicing kids going off into the abyss). Instead I will use the existing throttle pedal to act like a dead man switch. Meaning they will have to press the gas pedal to deactivate the brakes but use the thumb throttle to actually control the speed. Once they get more comfortable I will reverse the pedal (and move it left) to act like a true brake.
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Jamesonsdad
Journeyman Modder

Fayetteville
Georgia
USA

342 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2007 :  05:36:51  Show Profile
Just a couple of observations. First, you'll want to put your key switch on the lock connector not the power lead. There is too much current in the power lead to be switched by a normal key switch.
Second, you say you don't plan on using the charger connectors. The ability to charge both batteries at the same time without having to remove them from the vehicle is one of the great advantages of using a scooter controller. The 24v automatic scooter chargers are cheaper than the trickle chargers talked about on this site too.
Finally, you have obviously spent a lot of time planning the wiring of this vehicle and on paper everything should work good. In reality though I still think the stock wiring harness with the wires reversed on the gas pedal is your best bet at a reliable set-up. Every time I have put an automotive style 30amp relay in the drive wiring of a PW it smokes in short order, even on stock 12v. Bigger relays that could handle the juice are just too expensive for a PW IMO.


Power Wheels, How bad have you got it?


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