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 The Gaucho gets variable speed
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Grant
Senior Modder



Brisbane
Queensland
Australia

1820 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2007 :  06:59:22  Show Profile  Visit Grant's Homepage
I just finished installing a scooter controller and throttle on the Gaucho tonight and I have to say I think it is one of the coolest mods so far. The variable throttle adds a whole new dimension to it. Liam was already in bed so he hasn’t had a chance to drive it yet unfortunately. I am not sure who is going to be more excited though, him or me.

To power it I removed the 18volt setup and replaced it with two 12volt 18ah batteries in series for the motors and a 12volt ah battery for the lights and accessories. I also installed a battery indicator from a scooter. I also used the ignition key to operate the vehicle to add some more realism.

The next step is trying to retro fit dome drum brakes from the older model Gaucho.




http://www.youtube.com/GauchoDrift

Kirky_Turky
Journeyman Modder




148 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2007 :  08:06:14  Show Profile  Click to see Kirky_Turky's MSN Messenger address
why not use electric scooter drum brakes? i have 4 xD



WOOT! fun xD
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Grant
Senior Modder

Brisbane
Queensland
Australia



1820 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2007 :  17:26:33  Show Profile  Visit Grant's Homepage
I managed to pick up an old Gaucho from e-bay. It was in pretty poor condition but had gearboxes, one RS775FS motor and most importantly rear dumb brakes with all the components in tact.

The brakes fit directly onto the new Gaucho models however there have been some changes. Due to the increased wheels size the new gaucho have a deeper motor pan. The gearboxes are also orientated vertically rather than horizontally who means that the brake activation rod can no longer be located in the same spot.

The options are to replace the motor pan with the old Gaucho model and extend the rear shocks to regain the height, or, use the existing motor pan and place the brake activation rod in a new location and work out another way to connect it to the pedal.




http://www.youtube.com/GauchoDrift
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Kirky_Turky
Journeyman Modder




148 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2007 :  08:44:32  Show Profile  Click to see Kirky_Turky's MSN Messenger address
i do the first 1 , using the older motors



WOOT! fun xD
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2007 :  07:44:30  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
The variable speed control has been my favorite mod yet, I installed it on two PW's this summer (Jeep & Bigfoot) The bang for the buck is unreal!

Quote from the Jeep thread:
quote:
Originally posted by Grant

I am currently seeing the same effect with the gaucho which is running a 24volt 350watt scooter controller. Since the Gaucho motors can draw up to 230Watts (19amps) each at 12volts, the controller does not seem to be supplying enough power to each motor when running in parallel. As a result the Gaucho seems to be running at about the same speed as it did on 18volts. Running the motors in Series seems to have no affect, if anything it seems a little faster than stock.

I have also added a separate brake pedal however I did not use the controllers brake feature at all instead using a SPDT relay to break the circuit between the controller and the motors and shorting the motors.


I assume a big part of the problem is running the motors in parallel, like you mentioned, but also the fact that they are now at 24 volts. If the motors draw 19 amps at 12 volts, it may be twice that at 24 volts? Then put them in parallel doubles it again, 19 x 4 = 76 amps. It's probably not actually that high, but gives you an idea of why you might be having problems.

For comparison only: Running stock, 12 volts, motors in parallel, 19 amps each, so 38 amps total through the wiring.

If you ran the motors in series with the 24 volt controller, the motors are running at 12 volts each, so 19 amps each. But in series, the 19 amps is still just 19 amps, they don't add together. That's only 1/4 of the 76 amps in the above example... in fact it's only 1/2 of the 38 amps of the stock setup.

Maybe kinda late now, but running a 36 volt controller, and the motors in series, would give the same speeds as 18 volts, same current to the motors, 1/2 the current in the wires (compared to the 18 volt setup), a bit more efficiency, but losing the posi effect.

Edited by - swhenrik on 09/12/2007 07:52:16
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Grant
Senior Modder

Brisbane
Queensland
Australia



1820 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2007 :  16:09:25  Show Profile  Visit Grant's Homepage
One of my original ideas was to use a 36volt controller and run the motors in series to effectively be 18volts. There were a number of reasons I decided against it, among them was the unavailable of reasonably prices 36volt controllers here, the limited space making 3x 12volt 12ah battery difficult to fit and the fact I already had a 24volt controller lying around.

The performance is still quite good with the 24volt controller and it would still be around 17kph/10mph. I have also added two 550 motor heat sinks and a small 12volt brushless ball bearing fan to each motor to try and keep them cool.

I also have a spare Gaucho motor pan and a 350Watt scooter motor, chain and 80 tooth sprocket kicking around so I have started putting together some plans for future upgrades.




http://www.youtube.com/GauchoDrift
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2007 :  07:14:58  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
I understand the "having it already" logic.... most of my projects were based entirely around stuff I already had.

"IF" doing a 36 volt controller, running the motors in series, you could get by with smaller batteries. Three of the 7.2 AH batt's in series would get you close to the dual 12 AH batt's for run time, although it's hard to compare apples to apples with different voltages. It would actually be a lot more run time then running the 24 volts with motors in parallel, but less then runing 24 volts and motors in series.

If you have 12 AH batt's laying around and not 7.2's.... that's another story too.
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Grant
Senior Modder

Brisbane
Queensland
Australia



1820 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2007 :  21:08:08  Show Profile  Visit Grant's Homepage
I do have 7.2ah’s and 12ah lying around so either one wouldn’t be an issue. I was hoping to get the longest run time possible though which is why I went to 18ah batteries. Two of them and a 7.2ah for accessories basically fill the entire usable space under the bonnet (hood).

I did consider other options around 18volts to the motors but I really was hoping for a bit more performance as well hence the 24volt decision. The current requirements wouldn’t have been such an issue with a beefier controller or less demanding motors.




http://www.youtube.com/GauchoDrift
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Grant
Senior Modder

Brisbane
Queensland
Australia



1820 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2007 :  17:56:31  Show Profile  Visit Grant's Homepage
After some initial testing I found the speed with the 24volt controller was not any greater than running directly on 18volts. The motors also started to get extremely hot even after a short test. I added heat sinks and fans however with spare parts few and far between I decided it wasn’t worth the risk.

For these reasons I decided to change the 24volt controller with a 36volt 40amp controller that was rated for motors up to 750watts. This was a pretty good match as the maximum theoretical output of the motors is 690Watts @18volts. The idea is to run 36volts with the high speed lockout so the motors run in series essentially providing 18volts to each motor.

I also replaced the 2 x 12volt 18ah batteries with 3 x 12volt 12ah batteries. Fortunately there is quite a bit of room under the bonnet (hood) so all 4 batteries and the controller can fit under there (3 for the motors and 1 for accessories). I had considered moving some of the batteries to under the seat but I didn’t want it to be back heavy esp. with the traction of the rear wheels. On 18volts the gaucho is capable to lifting the front wheels when taking off on a slight incline with the batteries in the front so moving them to the back would only make it worse. I also wanted steering to be responsive so the extra weight really helps with that.

The first test drive was quite successful, the speed was easily as fast as it was using the 24volts controller, if not a little faster. I didn’t get a chance to take any official speed readings but I plan for some more comprehensive test on the weekend.




http://www.youtube.com/GauchoDrift
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2007 :  07:14:30  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
Glad to hear you got some better results with the new setup.

The motors are 690 watts each? (theoretical at 18 volts) If yes, WOW! Keep in mind, when in series, the motor current does NOT add together like it does when in parallel.
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Grant
Senior Modder

Brisbane
Queensland
Australia



1820 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2007 :  17:01:40  Show Profile  Visit Grant's Homepage
Thanks swhenrik

The 690watts is combinded so the controller should easily be able to handle the motors maximium performance.



http://www.youtube.com/GauchoDrift
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Grant
Senior Modder

Brisbane
Queensland
Australia



1820 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2008 :  05:43:06  Show Profile  Visit Grant's Homepage
The wiring of the Gaucho is starting to get quite messy. I have drawn up a quick circuit diagram but I need to redo it as the compression method of saving it as a .jpg has ‘smudged’ it.



78.6 KB



http://www.youtube.com/GauchoDrift
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