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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2006 :  10:11:06  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Picked up two more jeeps (Aftershock 74270 $10 and Wrangler 78490 $15).
In the process of heavily modding the aftershock, mods include but not limited too (KC lights, headlights, taillights, radio, speed controller mod, battery upgrade to 24V, seperate gas/brake pedals, repaint and decals, and more that I cant remember). My many questions would be if I get a 24V battery from Gruber could I use the 12V lights with it or would the battery burn them out? Also, what motors do I need to step up too that wouldn't burn out after a few days as I've seen people talk about? I'll post some pics up of my progress when I get a chance. I've already installed taillights, headlights, speakers for radio, KC lights, and did the brake/gas pedal mod(w/o wiring yet), paint and new decals, some wiring already. Would like to upgrade the wiring to 10gauge but cant find any around here that sells over 20feet that dont cost an arm and leg. Got to order the controller, throttle, battery(s), charger and a few other small items. Any other help appreciated. Been following JamesonsDad's project also. Thanks Jeff

jasncab
Forum Admin

Phoenix
AZ
USA



1119 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2006 :  11:10:51  Show Profile  Visit jasncab's Homepage
If you hook 12V lights to a 24V battery they will usually burn really bright for a very short period of time. Not a good idea. You could buy two 12V hook them in a series for power to the car and only tap one for power to the lights. It is as simple as where you hook the power inputs. You should then charge each 12V seperately because the one with the lights will be slightly more dicharged.

As far as motors I will let someone else answer. I wish Jamesonsdad would completely convert to this site... what can we do to convince him?
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TiddlerRacer
Senior Modder

Adrian
MI
USA



1849 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2006 :  14:57:27  Show Profile
Robot Marketplace sells AWESOME 10 gauge wire for $0.69/ft. Very good stuff, and well worth the money, IMO.

www.robotmarketplace.com

Look under the electronics header, then under wire.

Testing the limits of Fisher Price engineering on a daily basis.
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Jamesonsdad
Journeyman Modder

Fayetteville
Georgia
USA

342 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2006 :  20:36:04  Show Profile
I would definitely recommend 700 series motors for 24v. I bought HTI motors from the robot marketplace for $10 each. One got toasted on the variable speed test ride #2, but come to find out it was most likely due to binding gears and not the voltage or lack of cooling.

SS1 700 motors are supposed to be top notch, but from the small amount of shopping I’ve done the prices are top notch also.
All electronics has the DCM-265 for cheap and I’ll probably go that route pending a possible scooter drive mod.

Another consideration is the gearing. I’m running 19t #7s and it was plenty fast at part throttle. 16t gearboxes with more throttle should deliver the same top end speed with less stress on the motors getting there. Just a thought.

I love this site, just show me where I can set up my Blog and you won’t be able to get rid of me!


See my project page:http://www.ryanhull.com/forums2/weblog.php?w=9
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2006 :  05:26:52  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
On the battery debate, I know 18amp/hour battery would be better but Gruber has 3 12v 12a/h batteries cheaper. How much amps do these motors use? I guess I could use the voltmeter but I'm not the greatest electician in the world. So any help on how to check how much amps something uses I would appreciate it. Thanks Jeff
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Jamesonsdad
Journeyman Modder

Fayetteville
Georgia
USA

342 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2006 :  08:52:11  Show Profile
Giranger, I went with the 18ah batteries because I was giving up the ability to hot swap them. If you will be able to hot swap I would go with the smaller ones because of the weight.
There are way too many variables that affect how much current a motor draws to come up with a set figure. To be sure the 700s will draw more than the 550s but as the saying goes, your mileage may will vary.


See my project page:http://www.ryanhull.com/forums2/weblog.php?w=9
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2006 :  17:51:03  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Well, here are some progress pics. Here is what I started with ($10 at yard sale).
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2006 :  18:00:12  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Heres after the new paint job, decals and some mods done already. Many more to come.
The "doors" acutally open and close, I just modded them to close better.

Actaul KC lights, headlights, shackles in case he gets stuck.

Closer pic of the front

Rear tail lights and spare tire

KC lights with and without cover

Actual key switch, horn button on steering wheel, and switch for KC lights where the decals for lights is.

Back of the KC lights

Spare tire on a bracket off of my Jeep (4XRAC bracket)

Here is a pic of all of the "kids"(my) toys LOL

Plus this one I just picked up for $15 at yard sale

Hope you all enjoy and I will post more as I get further down the road with all p/n's and name of the stuff I use. Later Jeff
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2006 :  18:05:54  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Forgot one more pic, this one is the inside. Seperate gas/brake pedals, speakers on the side for radio and carpeting.
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2006 :  05:04:44  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
I have also treaded all steering component rods, steering wheel and axles so I dont have to use those caps anymore and can remove it all really easy. Only one problem, on the axles when you screw on a nut and the wheel is turned it tends to unscrew the nut or tighten it! So now I have to go see if I can find thin enough castlated nuts and drill the ends to accept a cotter pin so the nut wont come off or tighten. Any other suggestions? On all the steering components it works great.
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2006 :  05:38:10  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
If you will be able to hot swap I would go with the smaller ones because of the weight.

What do you mean by hotswap JamesonsDad?
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Jamesonsdad
Journeyman Modder

Fayetteville
Georgia
USA

342 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2006 :  06:26:20  Show Profile
That is some fantastic looking work you have done there!
I love the PVC roll bar with the lights with the removable covers, oh and the carpet-great idea. The paint job and decals are terrific too.

What I meant by “hot swapping” batteries is removing low/dead batteries and installing charged ones while the kids are in the middle of a riding session. The term comes from the Air Force from the process of refueling fighter jets with the engines running and pilots onboard to get them back in the air ASAP.

With my setup, the batteries are charged in the vehicle. When the low voltage sensor in the scooter controller turns the Jeep off, the fun is over until the batteries are recharged.



See my project page:http://www.ryanhull.com/forums2/weblog.php?w=9
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TiddlerRacer
Senior Modder

Adrian
MI
USA



1849 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2006 :  07:43:37  Show Profile
Nice Jeep! Everyone's stuff looks great...our stuff looks like crap but runs like a raped ape. I guess I can't get away fromt hat "sleeper" concept.

Love the spare tire carrier...awesome idea!

Testing the limits of Fisher Price engineering on a daily basis.
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2006 :  12:31:07  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Jamesonsdad-I too was in the army (aviation) and we go by hot refueling which is the same thing. I will probably just go the same route you did with charging while in the jeep. That way the batteries wont undercharge.

TiddlerRacer-sleepers are the way to go!!!

Thanks for the comments. Jeff
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2006 :  15:48:56  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Just got off the phone with TNC Scooters. Might be picking up a belt driven scooter motor. Depends on what the length of the belt is between the motor and sprocket that goes on the axle. If it will fit under the seat that may be the way I go. The only thing is is that it would be 1:1 gear ratio. Only because the sprockets they normally use on the axle has a 3-3.5 inner ID. Dont know the actual outer OD is so that may be an issue also. I would use the same sproket thats on the motor on the axle if the ID of that sprocket fits the axle. So many variables LOL hope it all makes sence .Jeff
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knite_owl
New Member




27 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2006 :  16:57:49  Show Profile
The PVC mod is really neat. I have a question regarding it though. Did you enlarge the holes, or did you decrease the size of the pipes. I am trying to do something like this and I was going to enlarge the holes, but could not find a good way to do it without breaking the existing holes.

How did you get the pipes to fit correctly?
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2006 :  06:02:16  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by knite_owl

The PVC mod is really neat. I have a question regarding it though. Did you enlarge the holes, or did you decrease the size of the pipes. I am trying to do something like this and I was going to enlarge the holes, but could not find a good way to do it without breaking the existing holes.

How did you get the pipes to fit correctly?



The front holes didnt have to enlarge, the rear ones I did with a wood spade bit. Basically I followed the same lines as the original roll bar except made it taller so the KC lights would be over the kids heads not behind them. The stock KC light "fixture" fit perfectly over the PVC just had to drill holes in the PVC for the screws. Its all basically (2)90', (4)45', (2)T fittings, (2)end caps and Straight PVC.
I used the end caps on the rear uprights inside the body. Basically to keep the kids from pulling it out. I used PVC glue on all joints once I cut and made sure everything fit, even where the uprights go into the body so it wont come out. For the "doors" I used (2)T fittings that I drilled out the center to fit over the entire PVC pipe so its tight and can swing open or closed. I also ran my wires to the KC lights before I glued everything. Hope this helps, if you have more questions just ask.

I ordered all the parts I need to finish this project hopefully in a week or two. From TNC Scooters:250W Motor, 65 Tooth Sprocket, Thumb Throttle, Charger, Controller, Fuse Holder(extra fuses), 24V light bulbs to replace my 12V ones, 24V horn, #25 chain. Hopefully that will be all I need. I also just finished my "Winch" on the front. I used a kidney shaped gear box which I moved the motor the other side of the gearbox houseing and mounted a wire spool to where the tire mounts and made a winch plate with housing for when the kids get "stuck". I also made a remote switch so they can use the winch outside the jeep (too be safe LOL). Also included 20' synthetic rope with hook on the end. Had to extend the front bumper out 1" and used aluminum plate and solid aluminum to mount the winch. It looks pretty sharp, I'll get some pics up soon. Jeff

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(currently being modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja

Edited by - Giranger on 07/11/2006 06:05:00
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TheRASGuy
Apprentice Modder


NJ
USA

98 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2006 :  08:45:39  Show Profile
How hot do those KC lights get?

The Mrs is not a fan of 3rd degree burns and splashed the halogen foglight mods (for now) - ended up buying 2 flashing LED Strobe lights from AllElectronics.com and amd almost done making it look like a police car...but the foglights would rock.

I would even settle for a high output LED light system if anyone has any suggestions....

Yes it is a sickness ;-)

Green Jeep Wrangler @ 18V, Barbie Jeep - restoration work in progress White/Pink, 1 Red Wrangler - project car, (Horn, lights, fogs, siren, strobes, etc) a PW NINJA ATV (stock for now) and a Peg Gaucho w/o battery - another project.
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2006 :  11:27:26  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
They dont get hot at all as they are $1 specials at harbour freight. I did use fog lights before and they did get hot but my kids never messed with them. Jeff

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(currently being modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2006 :  17:00:56  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Just got done with the Winch. Here are a few shots of it.



Hope you like Jeff

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(currently being modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
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K-man
Journeyman Modder

Paducah
KY
USA

484 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  06:10:14  Show Profile
Thats the craziest thing I have ever seen! who would have thought to use an old gearbox! awesome
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TiddlerRacer
Senior Modder

Adrian
MI
USA



1849 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  07:50:08  Show Profile
That is awesome! Great work!

****Testing the limits of Fisher Price engineering on a daily basis.****
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  11:37:43  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Thanks for the comments. I'm so excited and kinda bummed at the same time. Just got my stuff from TNC but somehow they skipped over the sprocket!!! So they are priority shipping it out so now I still have to figure out how to mount it and where. Well, at least I can get all the electrical out of the way till then. Jeff

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(currently being modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  05:14:45  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Got everything prewired to make sure everything worked right and how the wiring was going to be. Looks pretty interesting to say the least LOL. Everything worked great, motor (forward and reverse), brakes lights, throttle, brake switch, charger, key switch and whatever else I forgot. The only issue i might have is there is no way to wire the brake resister into the motor to cut off like the PW's did. Because everything is seperated in the controller unlike the PW's where its all wired together. That and the throttle is no longer an on/off switch its a potentiometer now. So I guess I'll just get everything wired and see how fast it actually stops with the weight of the PW and my son. Only issue might be on a downhill and the motor just coasting to a stop (which isnt good). Well, if anyone can think of anything chime in. Thanks Jeff

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(currently being modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
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K-man
Journeyman Modder

Paducah
KY
USA

484 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  06:19:23  Show Profile
You may have already read this but in case you haven't, this is the simplest way to wire while retaining the stock braking effect (with brake pedal)

Your controller will come with instructions for what wires go where. Hook up the charging port, the keyed switch and the throttle.

USING YOUR STOCK WIRING HARNESS, you need to re-wire your gas pedal to act as a brake, I can't remember which wires to switch, you will need to put your stock battery in and see which ones to switch, this is simple but it has been a year since my last conversion so I can't remember. What you will accomplish doing this is for the vehicle to have power to the motors ALL THE TIME UNTIL you hit the pedal, then it breaks the circuit and shorts the motors together to get the braking action. This is crucial if you want a brake on the vehicle. Remember, when you hit the new brake pedal, it cuts all power to the motors and shorts the motors out to create the braking action.

Now that you have the old gas pedal/new brake pedal fixed, and tested with the stock battery (vehicle wants to GO until pedal is pushed), hook up the MOTOR output FROM the scooter controller to your stock wiring harness. Lastly hook up the batteries, you will hear a pop usually, and test it out.

THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE to using the stock wiring harness (with brake conversion) is your ability to have a brake, a REVERSE, AND high and low speeds! BE CAREFUL, high speed will now be 24V, low speed will now be the old high speed of 12V.


If you are already running the scooter motor then disregard the part about the hi/lo speed, you will only have high.
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Jamesonsdad
Journeyman Modder

Fayetteville
Georgia
USA

342 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  07:16:03  Show Profile
You are definetly going to want a brake of some sort.
It sounds like you have already rewired everthing, like I did, and discarded the original harness and switches. I tried wiring the resistor circuit in the same circuit as the braking signal to the controller and fried the controller. Doh.
What would work is a DPDT plunger switch under the brake pedal to keep the two circuits isolated.
The easiest solution though is the one K-man suggested-putting the brake switch in the wire between the controller and motors. You don't use the brake input to the controller, but since you are breaking the circuit to the motors you don't really need it.


Power Wheels, How bad have you got it?


See my project page:http://www.ryanhull.com/forums2/weblog.php?w=9
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knite_owl
New Member




27 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  15:12:47  Show Profile
Depending on how you wire up the brake switch, just by adding a relay, you can still have the break resistor like the original setup. Just setup the relay to switch the power leads from the controller to the break resistor and you will be fine.

If there is enough need, I can draw up what it would look like.
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2006 :  18:19:12  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Basically I got to actually wiring it and installed the thumb throttle under the gas pedal and added an extra pedal for the brakes. But right now it only cuts power to the scooter motor just as if you let up on the gas pedal anyways. As luck would have it I got all the wires ran and hooked them up and burned out the 5amp fuse that goes to the key switch. Of course I dont have the same size as the original. I beleive I hooked up my KC lights wrong or something. Trying to troubleshoot as I type. Just taking a little break. Basically I wired horn, headlights and KC lights onto the key switch. So none of those would work unless the key is turned. The headlights would auto turn on as no switch, of course the horn is on a switch and the KC lights are on a switch also. I wired past the 5 amp fuse and the headlights worked, the horn worked but no KC lights so that may have been my problem. The only problem I see with all of this is that most of the wires coming out of the controller are 16 gauge and no bigger than 14. After I went and paid a fortune on 10guage, connectors and everything else, then I decided to go with a scooter motor. I guess if it workes on the scooter it'll work on the PW. Just have 10-14guage going to 16gauge LOL. Well, gotta go spend more time on this thing. Sometimes i wonder why i even started this LOL Jeff

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(currently being modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
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Jamesonsdad
Journeyman Modder

Fayetteville
Georgia
USA

342 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  20:54:52  Show Profile
Did you figure out what the electrical problem was? Did your sprocket ever show up and have you figured out how to mount everything?

I'm currently fitting a motor, belt, and drive gear from a PW Lightning PAC scooter into the project Jeep. It has been quite a job so far. I'm using angle from an old bed frame to fabricate a frame to support everything. The axle is now 1/2" and plates are welded to it to drive the wheels.
The thing is going to weigh ton by the time its done, but it will be bullet proof, I hope!


Power Wheels, How bad have you got it?


See my project page:http://www.ryanhull.com/forums2/weblog.php?w=9
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2006 :  05:09:38  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Got everything done this weekend. Everything works great:Headlights come on when key is turned on(daytime running lights), Taillights when brake is pressed, KC lights with switch, Horn (button on steering wheel), FM/cassette stereo, Winch (is very awesome), throttle (thumb throttle). The gas and brake are seperate pedals. My fuse problem was the 12V horn I was using with my 24V system. For some reason it blew the fuse so luckily I bought a 24V scooter horn and installed it instead. Works great now. Sprocket showed up and just welded it to a large washer which I welded to the hub of the tire. I was so excited to finally get it done after a solid month working on it then it all came crashing down when my son pressed on the gas and it only did about 2mph(barely) for about 10' before the chain popped off. I have rubber tires in the back and plastic in the front so that wasnt going to work either for turning. Also since the rear axle is solid and the sprocket drives the whole thing it is going to be almost imposible to turn since one tire wants to turn faster than the other in a turn. I should have thought of that since my Jeep is locked in the rear and when I turn my tires chirp since they now turn at the same speed. So now its back to the drawing board to figure out what to do. Going to call TNC Scooters today to find out why its only going 2 MPH when a scooter will do 18mph with the 250W motor and 65 tooth sprocket i have. The PW has to weigh less than a scooter specially with only a 40lb kid. Heck I may just have to go back to gearboxes and upgraded Johnson 700 motors :o( Only problem with that is I drilled the holes for the axle for a 5/8" hole instead of the original 7/16" ( I think its 7/16"). I'm just really disappointed and so is my son. Maybe you'd have to have one of the 1000watt motors? Anyways I'll post up some pics later today. Jeff

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(currently being modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
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Jamesonsdad
Journeyman Modder

Fayetteville
Georgia
USA

342 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2006 :  06:16:44  Show Profile
Sorry to here things aren't going smoothly. Don't give up though, that's the price you pay for being on the cutting edge.
Steering has been a concern of mine with a solid rear axle. I was going to put rubber on all four wheels, but even that may not be enough. I was toying with the idea of splitting the axle and putting a scooter drive on each rear wheel, or just having 1 wheel drive and seeing what happens with the other freewheeling.
Keep us posted.


Power Wheels, How bad have you got it?


See my project page:http://www.ryanhull.com/forums2/weblog.php?w=9
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K-man
Journeyman Modder

Paducah
KY
USA

484 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2006 :  06:44:13  Show Profile
First, could you post some pictures please, I would really like to see this, especially the axle setup.

Second, here are some suggestions/opinions that may or may not help? Keep in mind I am no expert and you may have already thought of this stuff. The chain can be troublesome on these if everything isn't perfect. You can try just running 12V from the battery (bypassing the controller) like on a regular PW to see how it does. If it was rated for say 18mph at 24V then it should go 9mph apprx. If you are familiar with scooters, you will find that they don't have much torque, especially at take off. You may be overtaxing it with that much weight and friction. If you are running an actual scooter motor and sprockets, you may be geared too high. If that is the case, you would need to step it down, there are a couple of ways of doing that. Running straight 12V will have lots of torque and should tell you if you need to re-gear. Running the scooter controller will not allow you to just dump 24V into the motor right off, it senses a bunch of stuff and lets the power build slowly. It is actually varying the current. I feel it is geared too high to have any torque to get going, you need a maximum speed of about 9mph maybe, or even less. You would probably have to step it down using an idler with another set of sprockets, then coming off that going to your final drive axle. In effect, that is what the stock gearboxes are doing, stepping it WAY down to get the torque to push the vehicle. If I were to experiment on one of these right now, I would probably go straight 12V to the motor with a standard wiring harness/pedal. The motors/belts that came on the Powerwheels minibike have plenty of torque at 12V to pull a full size adult at 7mph so I think the only drawback would be the sudden start of not using variable speed.

A quick fix for the solid axle problem may be to run plastic tires again, but I am sure you are reluctant to do this.

The only other solution, besides making it one wheel drive, is to weld something like a freewheel on each side of the axle and attach the wheels to them. A freewheel is what is on a kids bmx bike, the kind that DOESN'T have a coaster brake. It only engages when it is being pulled, and free wheels when it is not. Here is what that will do, the axle is only turning as fast as the slowest wheel! When turning a corner, the inside tire will continue pulling the vehicle, the outside wheel is now going faster than the slower axle since it now has the freewheel attached. Lets say you come to a slick spot and one wheel wants to spin, instead of that one wheel spinning, the axle will only turn as fast as the slowest turning tire so the one with the traction is the one that determines the speed, so basically they both turn at the same speed, regardless of traction.

So why don't they use this simple solution on automobiles? You can't go in reverse!
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2006 :  11:50:46  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
The other problem with a one-way drive is no brakes! Unless you plan to try to retrofit actual bicycle brake hubs, which sounds impossible. Or fit individual brakes on each wheel, sounds hard also.

Easy cure for the pushing with rubber tires is a differential! You'll lose a lot of climbing/off-roading ability with the diff, but it will steer perfect. Should be a semi easy bolt-in operation. It's not cheap, but you can get one here: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_35768_35768 There's a sprocket made to fit it here: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_35625_35625 but it uses #40/41 chain. This could be fixed by running a jackshaft gear reducer, #25 from the motor to the jackshaft, #40 from the jackshaft to the axle. Can get parts for it here: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_23633_23633

There are bearings to fit the axle here: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay2?xsell=true&storeId=6970&productId=21915&R=21915

Edited by - swhenrik on 07/26/2006 12:01:25
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sporty982000
Journeyman Modder


illinois
USA

231 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2006 :  12:27:41  Show Profile  Visit sporty982000's Homepage
brakes,

using the electric scooter rear brake could be a solution.

not all the inner brake contact is mounted to the wheel.

this is like a rear drum brake, like on a go-kart.

sporty
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greatdane
Expert Modder

Northwest
IN
USA

737 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2006 :  13:04:19  Show Profile
that axle setup would run about $200 buck plus install-could you just use a peerless gear drive from a lawn tractor-some of the sears were shift on the fly, and you would have the diff and reverse

anyone look at a wheelchair drive
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2006 :  13:33:46  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Well, here are the pics finally. Not in any actual order Jeff
Headlights ON!

KC Lights ON!

Brake Lights ON!

His Offroading Decals!

Side view, also fitted the PW hubcaps to the rear rubber tires.

Rear with radio antenna, and other offroad decals

Closeup of decals

This is the best decal I like. Here you can also see I installed the charging port into the gas filler

Here it is plugged up

More decals

Here you can see the front of the winch, it works perfect also

Inside of the Jeep

Under the seat, batteries, motor, controller and tons of wiring

Heres under the hood (actually 4x4 stuff storage LOL)

Here you can see the chain lined up with the motor sprocket that sticks out the side of the body

Sprocket welded to the wheel

An idea of how the chain is setup when tire is installed

Hope you enjoyed the pics now to just get the dang thing running LOL Jeff


5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(currently being modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
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K-man
Journeyman Modder

Paducah
KY
USA

484 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2006 :  13:40:54  Show Profile
Since I have plenty of spare parts my solution would be super simple, just run one motor per wheel without a solid axle, you could even have independant suspension like this if you eliminate the axle in the middle. Then you can run the motors in series so it turns nice and smooth.

I looked into doing one scooter motor and wheel on each side of an older ninja. It would be pretty simple to attach the wheel with sprocket on there and have the motors tucked up front, the wheels already have decent tires on them, then just power them like normal gearboxes. Top speed would be 7mph, just about right, with low speed at 3.5mph and no need for a scooter controller because of the heavy duty nature of the belt drive.

Just a thought.
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K-man
Journeyman Modder

Paducah
KY
USA

484 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2006 :  13:45:16  Show Profile
WOW, that looks great, you must have posted a few seconds before mine because I just noticed the pics.

Those tires are huge, is there anyway to get a larger sprocket for the wheel? That is much larger than the scooter tires I have seen, I imagine it is geared fairly high like that.

That thing looks professional, great job!!!!!
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sporty982000
Journeyman Modder


illinois
USA

231 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2006 :  14:36:49  Show Profile  Visit sporty982000's Homepage
awesome JOB !!

A+ super Modder !!


just my two cent, you might run into a weight issue with the wheels.

as I did not see what size scooter motor you had, but you may need a bigger size motor and even 36 volts.

you will likely have to play around with some sprocket sizes to get the gearing right.

But buy your work, I can already tell you know what you are doing.

sporty
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2006 :  19:05:29  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
appreciate the comments. The motor is the 250W 24V. Dont think the wife will let me spend 80 or so on a bigger motor. Seeing how this one works now I would need the 1000W motor. The weight on the wheels aint my issue LOL Its the solid axle and not being able to turn. I did like the axle setup for the go-cart mentioned earlier but the price is holding me back right now LOL. I see it this way, after I spend all this money and the kids get big enough I can use all these parts on some sort of go-cart so maybe the axle and bigger motor might have to fit in the budget somehow (only thing is is to do it so the wife wont find out LOL). Jeff

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(currently being modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
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sporty982000
Journeyman Modder


illinois
USA

231 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2006 :  19:45:44  Show Profile  Visit sporty982000's Homepage
Jeff,

lol !


So you tried it and it did not turn ?

bummer.


I have a project that I am hoping to start perhaps next year or over the winter. funds are a factor right now.

I have a gokart, 3 electric scooter, 9 power wheels, 1 gas scooter I built a few years back.

But I would like to make a wooden/sytrafoam vehicle/ shell and use electric motors and batteries.

I have thought of alot of designs, but nothing has stuck yet.

My son is afraid of gas engines for some reason and not sure if he will over come that anytime soon. Hince why I have stuck with electric vehicles.

since my oldest is 10, but light weight only 50 pounds, he still rides his power wheels. But I am feeling this to be his last year on it.

However I have a 5 year old also and my g/f has two kids still have a few years yet on them.

None of them can drive the go-kart yet, but I hope some of them will be able to next year.

I want something they can use in the winter aside from a snowmobile. not that we have had much snow in the past few years here, but perhaps I could say in the rain.

Weight of the body is a concern, styrafoam is a solution, however, fiberglass cloth and gell are used over it.

Its hard, cuz i dont want the thing to look like a box, i want curves and style and so forth. with plastic, i dont have the equipment or tools to mold and trying to seem together plastic and have it hold, is a challenge also.

Sporty
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2006 :  07:46:56  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
Yep, the differential axles are spendy... I have an axle of that style from an old riding lawnmower, I believe it was an old Wards brand rear engine rider. Only problem, I cut the shafts shorter many years back for some reason A little shopping around (farmer's fields, the local dump?) and you might find one?

Otherwise I'd look into running 2 big motors, one on each wheel. Could run two 125's in parallel with same speed control, or maybe even dual 250's in parallel. I assume running them in series will drop your speed too much.

But I gotta say, that jeep looks very cool! Excellent combination of mods/paint/stickers... I love the charging jack, looks factory.

Edited by - swhenrik on 07/27/2006 07:48:22
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2006 :  17:14:40  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Well, talked to Chris at TNC scooters and we did a little testing of the scooter setup and the thumb throttle for now seems to be out of sink (sp?). He's sending me a new one to try. They are the best people to deal with. At first I was kinda skeptic about them being scooter people and all, come on, how many scooters do people really buy? But after a few dealings and many a phone calls they are great. Chris will talk you through any issues you may have and give you pointers. Best service I have seen anywhere. Hopefully I can get more than 2mph out of this thing. Still trying to find an old riding lawn mower for parts (steering and rear axle with "open" diff.
Just picked up a free "old" fisher price sportscar. very very faded but the motors and gearboxes are in great shape. The seat even adjusts front to back. Pretty cool. Its actually pretty long also. About a foot longer than the PW Jeeps. Only problem is its 2 6V batteries. I only have 12V and that doesnt work with 2 6V system. Its even got a circuit breaker that sticks out of the dash so you can manually reset it. Frame underneath. One more issue, the tires are tiny and have a square drive. Would rather run a regular 12V but dont know how to wire it up except to wire it just like the other PW I have. Not sure yet what I'm gonna do with it. Tomorrow going to a coworkers house to check out a ninja and silverado that he has that is "just taking up space and getting in the way of the mower". So hopefully he'll let them go really cheap. I'm gonna have to have a parking lot for all the ones I have LOL The other five are taking residence on one side of the garage. Jeff

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(currently being modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
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gameboy
Moderator

just north of austin
tx
USA



4796 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2006 :  22:16:16  Show Profile
just wanted to say you have done an excellent job with that jeep. look forward to seeing all the mods still in the works. also wanted to say the i also have a fisher price sports car that was working just fine till my wife decided to ride it and broke the middle gear on one side. i would say that they are only rated for a about 80 pounds though. if you can find any info on these cars let me know cuz i cant and i will be for ever in you debt. even though its broke my kids still sit in it and want it to work, i think they like it better than the ones that work. i do have to say i think they are better cars because of the frame. hey if you cant figure out what yo want to do with it let me know.

free is always better
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2006 :  14:22:13  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
gameboy, if you want it its yours. Everything works on it, tested it out with 2 12V batteries and everything works. Even the buttons and key. The breaker works because when the kids rode it for about 30 seconds to test it out it poped because of the 24V. So basically its just sitting here because I'm not about to buy two 6V batteries just for this. I am going to buy a few 6V but those are going to the other PW for 18V. I'm in Kentucky 40403 so let me know. Free except you pay shipping if you need anything or the whole thing. I even took it all apart and cleaned it up already. I'll get a pic here in a few minutes for you. Jeff

If your wife is jeolous of someone with the initials PW, then your addicted!!!

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(Super modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
Old Fisher Price Sportscar
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gameboy
Moderator

just north of austin
tx
USA



4796 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2006 :  06:27:09  Show Profile
some how i missed the middle page of this post and did not see the winch made out of a gear box. that is so freakin cool, who'd a thunk it. more power to ya. sent ya an email about the sports car. let me know what shipping would be, i need just the gear boxes but the whole car sounds good just dont know if i can aford the shipping on whole car. money is tight. thanks for everything. thaddeus

free is always better
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swhenrik
Moderator

Pengilly
MN
USA



4067 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2006 :  07:53:01  Show Profile  Visit swhenrik's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Giranger

Still trying to find an old riding lawn mower for parts (steering and rear axle with "open" diff.)


I just picked up some rider parts yesterday. 2 different steering gear reducers, one is a rack and pinion style, one is a large 90 degree drive, either may work great.

Most rear axles on riders are a one piece tranny and diff assembly, the challenge is finding something with a seperate tranny and chain drive to the diff/axle.

Time for you to do some dumpster diving? Will the local dump let you scavenge? Any lawnmower repair shops in your area?

quote:
Originally posted by Giranger

Only problem is its 2 6V batteries. I only have 12V and that doesnt work with 2 6V system.


Sounds like you'll have to check out how it's wired. If the batteries are wired in series, dropping in a 12 volt battery would be easy. Is it a single speed or 2 speed?
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EasyGo
New Member




24 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2006 :  21:31:11  Show Profile
Giranger,

Have you tried bypassing the controller and just switching 24V straight to the motor? Obviously, you won't be able to use your throttle if you do this, and the motor might overheat if run continuously beyond its rated current.

Taking a glance at the specs on a motor similar to yours on http://www.unitemotor.com/unite/en/Products.asp?ClassID=0552414405484571 you can extrapolate the numbers in the chart to see that the stall torque at the motor (ignoring wiring losses) should be about 5.1 N-m, or about 3.7 lb-ft. Multiplied by your 65:11 sprocket ratio and your 12:6.5 ratio (6.5" radius assuming a 13" tall tire), that works out to almost 41 lbs of accelerative force.

I suspect that your controller may be significantly limiting the available current. Your picture looks like the CT-302S9 that I have in my hand but haven't used -- TNC Scooters' eBay page says that one is rated for 10.5 amps, 30 amps peak. If that means instaneous peak, and the controller is limiting you to 10.5 amps average, that'd give you only about 0.52 lb-ft torque at the motor, or 5.7 pounds of accelerative force (which sounds a lot more like the situation you described).

It would be interesting to see how well the scooter motor worked without any limit from the controller. Running the numbers, it looks like a pair of these (or 350W motors) with a suitable controller might be a better setup. ** EDIT ** I should add that, as I believe others have suggested, a larger sprocket on the wheel (80 or 90 teeth, or more) would also help.

EasyGo

Edited by - EasyGo on 08/24/2006 07:50:38
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2006 :  17:32:36  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Easygo, thanks for the informative explanation LOL You lost me at "extrapolate" LOL I sorta get what your saying. I havent tried going straight to the motor just yet. TNC did send me another throttle to see if that helps but havent had time to mess with it yet. I did go by a golf cart place today to wieght some options with a golfcart motor but way too expensive and about 60 lbs or more. I did just get a mech job at work so I can get some pillow bearings to split the axle and see if taking some load off of the axle helps any. I believe it would but how much I dont know yet. Most of my speed problem is that the axle doesnt go through any bearings. Just the plastic were the original axle goes. So all the weight is practically on the axle slowing down any forward progress. I'll see what I come up with and let everyone know. Jeff

If your wife is jeolous of someone with the initials PW, then your addicted!!!

5 Jeeps and 2 Quads
My 96 XJ Cherokee Lifted 6" running 33's LOL
1 Aftershock Wrangler(Super modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
1 New Ninja
Old Fisher Price Sportscar
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HDG
New Member

Bothell
WA

4 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2006 :  00:57:36  Show Profile
You can safely run your 12-volt lights off of a 24-volt battery, just run them in series rather than in parallel
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Giranger
Apprentice Modder



USA

88 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2006 :  18:56:52  Show Profile  Visit Giranger's Homepage
Finally got it running..... You can check out the updates on my Projects page- http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=721

Jeff

Check out my Project (4-Real Jeep) at http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=721

1 Aftershock Wrangler(Super modded)
2 Barbie Cruizin' Tunes Wranglers
1 Girls Wrangler
1 Old Ninja
2 New Ninjas
1 Silverado
1 Peg Tractor w/tilt bed
Old Fisher Price Sportscar
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