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tipper mad
New Member



chester

United Kingdom

2 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  11:57:35  Show Profile
Aright everyone ime new here to the forum cant believe whot some of you guys have done you are prety clever anyway my kids have a perego gaucho silver jeep and i want to know is it safe to put a 12v car battery on in and if so how do you do it i have seen a wiring diagram on one of the pages but i just want to make sure cheers

Edited by - gameboy on 09/26/2009 06:59:32

RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  12:16:37  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by tipper mad

Aright everyone ime new here to the forum cant believe whot some of you guys have done you are prety clever anyway my kids have a perego gaucho silver jeep and i want to know is it safe to put a 12v car battery on in and if so how do you do it i have seen a wiring diagram on one of the pages but i just want to make sure cheers



Alot of people say car batterys are unsafe.
I however use tractor batterys and car batterys on just about every build.

Just make sure there is no damage to the battery.
The fluids are filled.
The cap is tight with no damge to seals.
The mounts hold the battery tight.
The wires are attached to the battery tight and free of corrosion.

When chargeing,never quick charge the battery!
That will produce hydrogen that the battery will release.
Trickle chargeing the battery is safe.
The battery reabsorbs the hydrogen before it can exscape.
You can quick charge only if the battery is externally mounted.
Like my COOLER TRIKE.
I still do not think its a good idea,quick charges never charge 100%,even though the reading says it's 100%.
It's more like 70% then 100%.

The white wire is Positive and the Black is negitive on Powerwheels!
Simply snip off the old connector about 2" from the end.This way you can reinstall it if you get the powerwheels battery later.
Purchase 2 battery treminal connectors and attach the wires securely to the connectors.

Hope that helped!!!

My cooler Trike has a couple pictures o the wires connected below.
Simply click the picture below the Picture of me!!!

Edited by - RICKYVB on 09/20/2009 12:21:17
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Divinar
Moderator

San Jose 95123
CA
USA



3057 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  12:31:57  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by tipper mad

Aright everyone ime new here to the forum cant believe whot some of you guys have done you are prety clever anyway my kids have a perego gaucho silver jeep and i want to know is it safe to put a 12v car battery on in and if so how do you do it i have seen a wiring diagram on one of the pages but i just want to make sure cheers



NO.

They *can* leak acid. Not all will, but they CAN.
(I've still got the marks on my legs from an incident in '84, where I tipped one over getting it out of a car - yes, the caps were on "tight")

Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) batteries are sealed. And most of the ones we use are also gel based, so even if they split open, the acid doesn't splash.

Car and motorcycle batteries can vent hydrogen. PW motors make sparks. It wouldn't be a huge explosion, but it's right under the seat!

The additional weight of a car battery is more than a second kid riding - this will slow the ride down.
If the battery is in the front, this will make it much more difficult to steer.

And finally, Lawnmower/motorcycle batteries are intended to be used at high amperage rates for very short times, for starting a gasoline engine. Not for constant drain and recharge. The SLA batteries are made for just this type of use.

Read this: http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=613



Escalade (Rubber tires, LED lights, Key switch, Remote Kill, wings. Wings?)
Lil Wrangler (2WD, 12v, Lights), Dora Jeep (Super-6 @ 12v, lights), Jeep Enforcer turned Aftershock (18v, WIP),
Grape Gaucho A151 (24v, scooter controller, WIP)
KFX Quad (Remote Kill), Crushmeister! (Silverado), Limited Edition Jeep (Stock)
Kawasaki Mojave 250 (Stock), PP Gator (Lights), Home Depot Loader, Lightning McQueen (Stock)

Edited by - Divinar on 09/20/2009 12:34:41
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RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  13:58:51  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Divinar

quote:
Originally posted by tipper mad

Aright everyone ime new here to the forum cant believe whot some of you guys have done you are prety clever anyway my kids have a perego gaucho silver jeep and i want to know is it safe to put a 12v car battery on in and if so how do you do it i have seen a wiring diagram on one of the pages but i just want to make sure cheers



NO.

They *can* leak acid. Not all will, but they CAN.
(I've still got the marks on my legs from an incident in '84, where I tipped one over getting it out of a car - yes, the caps were on "tight")

Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) batteries are sealed. And most of the ones we use are also gel based, so even if they split open, the acid doesn't splash.

Car and motorcycle batteries can vent hydrogen. PW motors make sparks. It wouldn't be a huge explosion, but it's right under the seat!

The additional weight of a car battery is more than a second kid riding - this will slow the ride down.
If the battery is in the front, this will make it much more difficult to steer.

And finally, Lawnmower/motorcycle batteries are intended to be used at high amperage rates for very short times, for starting a gasoline engine. Not for constant drain and recharge. The SLA batteries are made for just this type of use.

Read this: http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=613





Your Choice but,Yes!!!

Like I said,"Alot of people say car batterys are unsafe!"

I myself had one blow up working in a shop in Florida.
That battery was Garbage anyway.It had a cut in the side of it from a pulley wheel!
I told the owner to replace it but,NOOOooooo....BOOM!!!

As far as leaking. I have had no Tractor or Car battery ever leak at any angle for the past 15 years.

Plus,from the one that blew up in Florida.The acid does not burn if washed off quickly with water. I have no scares on my face. My eyes are still 20/20.

So you decide!!!

Edited by - RICKYVB on 09/20/2009 14:01:08
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jfoust
Senior Modder

Atlanta
GA
USA



2419 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  14:09:39  Show Profile  Visit jfoust's Homepage
To add to what Divinar said, what if your kid flips their gaucho and the battery comes out somehow and lands on them? That thing weighs 10x what a SLA does. Granted, there's a low probability of that happening, just as low as explosion or leaking, but there's still a chance. My kids well being isn't worth saving a few bucks, IMHO, but to each his/her own.

If you're buying a battery, you can do better money-wise by picking up an aftermarket SLA battery and fitting it in the car. Then you've still saved money over the stock battery and you've done everything you can to ensure your kids don't get injured or maimed from your using the wrong battery.

Current Fleet:
Super6 Vette, Grave Digger w/ 19T's, Gaucho Grande, Dora Lil Quad, Eliminator w/ 21T's, 12v Harley, Safety 1st C5R

Scrap Pile (email for parts):
High Torque Gaucho, Red PW Jeep
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RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  14:46:31  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by jfoust

To add to what Divinar said, what if your kid flips their gaucho and the battery comes out somehow and lands on them? That thing weighs 10x what a SLA does. Granted, there's a low probability of that happening, just as low as explosion or leaking, but there's still a chance. My kids well being isn't worth saving a few bucks, IMHO, but to each his/her own.

If you're buying a battery, you can do better money-wise by picking up an aftermarket SLA battery and fitting it in the car. Then you've still saved money over the stock battery and you've done everything you can to ensure your kids don't get injured or maimed from your using the wrong battery.



Just remember! Only Tractor and car batterys fall out and can hurt your kid!
Not!!!
All batterys can fall out if not secured properly.
Ahh,I give up.
Watch my Video on my Post and see for yourself the DEVILS batterys at work!!!

Besides,my niece and nephew have only lost a leg or 2 so far.
I myself have only lost my arm!!!


Edited by - RICKYVB on 09/20/2009 14:48:14
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ms1120
Senior Modder

M-Town
Georgia
USA



1464 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  15:20:42  Show Profile
LoL. The everlasting Battery Debate. One day we may all be able to agree to disagree. SLA is what the factory uses and are fairly safe. Lawn and Garden Batteries wind up in alot of them because they are cheaper and have more Amps. Units like the Optima sealed battery is an option but its heavy and it truly isnt designed to be discharged like these are, AND, the manufacturer recommends charging Optimas SLOWLY just like a SLA should be charged. I would like to see a NiMh battery made for PWs. They would be lighter and they are designed to be discharged and recharged over and over. They could even come in variations of voltage. They would also cost a fortune to have one with enough power.
Personally, I will stick with SLAs for the mean time. IMHO, SLAs are a safer option but I also have tried a lawn battery in the past and I keep one on hand for testing of lights and the such. But, when the kids ride, they only ride on SLAs. Like I said, just my opinion.

Fixing things that arent broken...and making them cool
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  15:46:14  Show Profile
Lets see, buy a battery made for the application that is safer, cheaper, lighter, charges faster, can be re-charged hundreds of times, etc or buy a car battery. Hmmm, tough decision.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock

Edited by - treebeme on 09/20/2009 15:47:16
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jfoust
Senior Modder

Atlanta
GA
USA



2419 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  16:18:56  Show Profile  Visit jfoust's Homepage
My thoughts exactly, Tree. It's not like a car batt is $10 and a SLA is $100 or anything. Yes, RICKYVB, a SLA could fall out in a flip too, but the car has battery holders designed for a battery of that weight and size. If they're properly used, they greatly reduce the chances of the battery going somewhere.

Most folks that I have seen using car batts don't strap them down in any way, leaving them as giant heavy projectiles in a flip or crash. Not saying everyone does that, but most that I have seen just hack up the compartments to make the batt fit and go about their business, adding to the probability of a problem.

Either way, in the off chance that a SLA or car battery gets out, how much does they weigh? 5 pounds? Now what's a car batt? 30? I'll take my chances with my kid's head and the SLA any day.

Current Fleet:
Super6 Vette, Grave Digger w/ 19T's, Gaucho Grande, Dora Lil Quad, Eliminator w/ 21T's, 12v Harley, Safety 1st C5R

Scrap Pile (email for parts):
High Torque Gaucho, Red PW Jeep
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Grant
Senior Modder

Brisbane
Queensland
Australia



1820 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  17:25:49  Show Profile  Visit Grant's Homepage
Using car batteries really limit your upgrade options as upgrading to 18volts is extremely difficult and 24volts is impractical in most cases.

While it is true that these vehicles can flip you are unlikely to see it occur as they will be running so slowly on 12volts



http://www.youtube.com/GauchoDrift
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PW warehouse
Senior Modder

Central
IN
USA



1712 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  18:56:48  Show Profile
Most that try to install a car battery normally butcher the battery compartment so bad, it just ruins the structural integretty of the body. And then to put all that weight on the front axle of a jeep that already has issues.

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gseric69
Moderator

Red Lion
PA
USA



6315 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2009 :  19:23:04  Show Profile  Visit gseric69's Homepage
Car batteries are also designed to produce a high amp output (to get that starter cranking) and as such I've seen plenty of PW's modded to use car batteries with melted wires.
Also as Tree pointed out, they are not designed for the deep cycle use that PW's require. A car battery is designed to start a car and that's it. After that the alternator kicks in, keeps the battery charged and powers the car. Repeated discharges are going to kill a car battery pretty fast.

36V Peg Perego Apache - Project: Super Power Police Jeep, 18V Metal Frame Jeep - Project: Sarge
Dragon/Craftsman Pickup Hybrid (WIP), 18V John Deere Off Road 4x4 (Gaucho, SOLD!)
12V Lil Jeep, 18V Turbo Sun Jammer Jeep, 12V Super 6 F150 Blue Thunder,
18V Lightning McQueen & 12V Lightning McQueen w/Duratrax Motors (Sold)
18V Green & Blue Ninja Quads w/19T's, 18V Dora Quad with 21T's
12V Harley Bat Bike w/Duratrax Motors, 12V Pink Harley (Future Trike)
Future Builds: 12V Xtreme Machine, 12V PW Fire Truck, 6V Wild Thing Super 6 & Mach 5
RIP: 12V Super 6 Suzuki Quad w/Seperate Brake pedal (Decommissioned/Parted)
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RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  07:55:20  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Grant

Using car batteries really limit your upgrade options as upgrading to 18volts is extremely difficult and 24volts is impractical in most cases.

While it is true that these vehicles can flip you are unlikely to see it occur as they will be running so slowly on 12volts




That is very true!!!

First valid opionion so far.
Car Batterys are not my choice by Far.
Small high amp Tractor batterys are First choice.
Then second is an SLA,Scooter style battery.
18 VOLT conversions get Factory 6volt and 12volt Powerwheels batterys.

As far as Charge and recharge.Car batterys do this everyday.
Yes,they are deisgned for high current draw applications for starting vehicles.
No,the battery does not determin this.The attached motor determins the draw.(STARTER MOTOR) The car battery is designed to provide that power the Starter motors requires.
For example,You can listen to your car stereo with amp and subwoofers for hours untill the battery gets low.NO hot wires,no melting wires.You can run your power windows and sunroof.No,hot wires,no Melting wires. Once the battery gets low.You simply restart your car and it charges quickly and it is as good as new in no time at all.

Yes,it is not designed to do this. But,is able to do this with maintnance.That's why I like them so much.When an SLA sealed battery
goes bad,Thats it.You can't repair it.It becomes core.When a Tractor battery goes bad after a year or two,You simply refill it to get another couple of months out of it.
Or you can take it back to WAL-Mart and get a brand new one free.
So saying that a Tractor battery is the same price as an SLA battery is false.

I have all new tractor batterys from old ones I bought 15years ago.
So 15x$20 for an SLA replacement is $300 for one powerwheels in replacement batterys.
While 15 years @ $20.00 for one powerwheels in my opionion is a much better deal.

Oh,and video is done!!!
You tell me Non sealed batterys leak now!!!
VIDEO:


Edited by - RICKYVB on 09/21/2009 07:59:44
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gseric69
Moderator

Red Lion
PA
USA



6315 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  08:19:48  Show Profile  Visit gseric69's Homepage
Ok, so as to not get into another argument over this again and again, I'm just going to state this.
The official stance of this Forum and it's moderators is that car/lawnmower/motorcycle or any type of unsealed battery should not be used in a vehicle your child will ride. However, you are of course free to make your own decisions and judgement calls, and you of course are doing this and all mods for that matter, at your own risk.

36V Peg Perego Apache - Project: Super Power Police Jeep, 18V Metal Frame Jeep - Project: Sarge
Dragon/Craftsman Pickup Hybrid (WIP), 18V John Deere Off Road 4x4 (Gaucho, SOLD!)
12V Lil Jeep, 18V Turbo Sun Jammer Jeep, 12V Super 6 F150 Blue Thunder,
18V Lightning McQueen & 12V Lightning McQueen w/Duratrax Motors (Sold)
18V Green & Blue Ninja Quads w/19T's, 18V Dora Quad with 21T's
12V Harley Bat Bike w/Duratrax Motors, 12V Pink Harley (Future Trike)
Future Builds: 12V Xtreme Machine, 12V PW Fire Truck, 6V Wild Thing Super 6 & Mach 5
RIP: 12V Super 6 Suzuki Quad w/Seperate Brake pedal (Decommissioned/Parted)
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RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  08:33:06  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by gseric69

Ok, so as to not get into another argument over this again and again, I'm just going to state this.
The official stance of this Forum and it's moderators is that car/lawnmower/motorcycle or any type of unsealed battery should not be used in a vehicle your child will ride. However, you are of course free to make your own decisions and judgement calls, and you of course are doing this and all mods for that matter, at your own risk.



I agree with you on this! All mods are dangerous in some way.
Between running 18 volts to 12volt motors to using old motors with rust or worse inside them. Shorts can happen and will. 12 volt switches are just that,12 volt. While most can handle more to increase their life. They where designed for 12 volt!

Think about the build alot before hand.
If your going to use a certain battery.Take into consideration what that battery weighs and its location. Make super strong mounts for the battery includeing back side support.Don't trust the factory plastic to hold the battery in place.It may hold it at first but,not forever.It will crack!!!

Use the right wire for the Voltage and amps.Below is a wire chart that I use per foot!!!
Simply click on te chart to make it bigger then right click and save as...

Hope that helps you with your build!!!

Edited by - RICKYVB on 09/21/2009 08:34:08
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rockjessemax
Journeyman Modder

mayfield
kentucky
USA



478 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  09:01:49  Show Profile
NOT ME, NOT ME, S-L-A ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!

Transporter of:
"LIBERTY BELL 7"
I LIVE IN A BATTERY POWERED WORLD
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gseric69
Moderator

Red Lion
PA
USA



6315 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  10:12:39  Show Profile  Visit gseric69's Homepage
Good info on batteries here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery

Car batteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_battery

Deep Cycle batteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_cycle_battery

36V Peg Perego Apache - Project: Super Power Police Jeep, 18V Metal Frame Jeep - Project: Sarge
Dragon/Craftsman Pickup Hybrid (WIP), 18V John Deere Off Road 4x4 (Gaucho, SOLD!)
12V Lil Jeep, 18V Turbo Sun Jammer Jeep, 12V Super 6 F150 Blue Thunder,
18V Lightning McQueen & 12V Lightning McQueen w/Duratrax Motors (Sold)
18V Green & Blue Ninja Quads w/19T's, 18V Dora Quad with 21T's
12V Harley Bat Bike w/Duratrax Motors, 12V Pink Harley (Future Trike)
Future Builds: 12V Xtreme Machine, 12V PW Fire Truck, 6V Wild Thing Super 6 & Mach 5
RIP: 12V Super 6 Suzuki Quad w/Seperate Brake pedal (Decommissioned/Parted)
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RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  11:40:33  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by gseric69

Good info on batteries here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery

Car batteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_battery

Deep Cycle batteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_cycle_battery



Thanks,backs up my ideas even more!!!
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  11:59:37  Show Profile
How do you figure that? From the lead-acid battery link when talking about car batteries.

"Repeated deep discharges will result in capacity loss and ultimately in premature failure, as the electrodes disintegrate due to mechanical stresses that arise from cycling."

But when discussing deep cycle batteries.

"Specially designed deep-cycle cells are much less susceptible to degradation due to cycling, and are required for applications where the batteries are regularly discharged, such as photovoltaic systems, electric vehicles (forklift, golf cart, electric cars and other) and uninterruptible power supplies. These batteries have thicker plates that can deliver less peak current, but can withstand frequent discharging."


Exactly how does that make the car battery a better choice over a battery designed to withstand deep discharge and charging cycles?



------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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gseric69
Moderator

Red Lion
PA
USA



6315 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  12:04:15  Show Profile  Visit gseric69's Homepage
And I personally like this statement
"Car batteries should always be handled with proper protective equipment (goggles, overalls, gloves), and make certain there are no sparks or smoking close by."

36V Peg Perego Apache - Project: Super Power Police Jeep, 18V Metal Frame Jeep - Project: Sarge
Dragon/Craftsman Pickup Hybrid (WIP), 18V John Deere Off Road 4x4 (Gaucho, SOLD!)
12V Lil Jeep, 18V Turbo Sun Jammer Jeep, 12V Super 6 F150 Blue Thunder,
18V Lightning McQueen & 12V Lightning McQueen w/Duratrax Motors (Sold)
18V Green & Blue Ninja Quads w/19T's, 18V Dora Quad with 21T's
12V Harley Bat Bike w/Duratrax Motors, 12V Pink Harley (Future Trike)
Future Builds: 12V Xtreme Machine, 12V PW Fire Truck, 6V Wild Thing Super 6 & Mach 5
RIP: 12V Super 6 Suzuki Quad w/Seperate Brake pedal (Decommissioned/Parted)
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RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  12:16:21  Show Profile
A car battery is a type of rechargeable battery that supplies electric energy to an automobile.[1] Usually this refers to an SLI battery (starting, lighting, ignition) to power the starter motor, the lights, and the ignition system of a vehicle’s engine. This also may describe a traction battery used for the main power source of an electric vehicle.

Automotive starter batteries (usually of lead-acid type) provide a nominal 12-volt potential difference by connecting six galvanic cells in series. Each cell provides 2.1 volts for a total of 12.6 volt at full charge. Lead-acid batteries are made up of plates of lead and separate plates of lead dioxide, which are submerged into an electrolyte solution of about 35% sulfuric acid and 65% water.[2] This causes a chemical reaction that releases electrons, allowing them to flow through conductors to produce electricity. As the battery discharges, the acid of the electrolyte reacts with the materials of the plates, changing their surface to lead sulfate. When the battery is recharged, the chemical reaction is reversed: the lead sulfate reforms into lead oxide and lead. With the plates restored to their original condition, the process may now be repeated.

A deep-cycle lead-acid battery is designed to deliver a consistent voltage as the battery discharges. In contrast, starter batteries (e.g. most automotive batteries) are designed to deliver sporadic current spikes. Battery-driven vehicles, such as golf carts, forklifts and floor sweepers commonly use deep-cycle batteries. While a deep-cycle battery can be used as a starting battery (and may work better than a traditional starting battery with the myriad of electronic components attached to most modern vehicles), the lower "cranking amps" imply that an over-sized battery may need to be used in an older vehicle that lacks fuel injection. Deep cycle batteries can be charged with a lower current than regular batteries.

The key structural difference between deep cycle batteries and cranking batteries are the lead plates, which are solid in deep-cycle batteries and composed of porous sponge-like plates in starting batteries. Some batteries that are labelled "deep-cycle" do not possess these solid lead plates, however, and are actually "hybrid" batteries. While a deep-cycle battery is designed to discharge down to as much as 20% of its charge capacity over several cycles, companies recommend that a hybrid battery not be discharged beyond 50% of its capacity


Powerwheels run the batterys dead!!!

Edited by - RICKYVB on 09/21/2009 12:18:53
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l3viathan
Journeyman Modder

Wellsville
New York
USA



151 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  12:18:25  Show Profile  Visit l3viathan's Homepage
I've done a fair bit of work on golf carts/electric cars, and almost always the first part to go is the battery tray. I have seen like new carts with nearly disintegrated frames around the batteries. Some aren't even worth sandblasting, i just cut out a section and replace it.

Unfortunately, that's the cost of having hours of run-time. I have seen carts with a large pack of UPS batteries (gruber), and they go very fast, just not very far.

A pack of high-quality Trojan batteries (6 x 6v) runs several hundred dollars, and can last from 7 to 10 years with meticulous maintenance.



Xtreme XR-401 • Kawasaki Ninja • Dora Lil' Quad
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RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  12:22:08  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by l3viathan

I've done a fair bit of work on golf carts/electric cars, and almost always the first part to go is the battery tray. I have seen like new carts with nearly disintegrated frames around the batteries. Some aren't even worth sandblasting, i just cut out a section and replace it.

Unfortunately, that's the cost of having hours of run-time. I have seen carts with a large pack of UPS batteries (gruber), and they go very fast, just not very far.

A pack of high-quality Trojan batteries (6 x 6v) runs several hundred dollars, and can last from 7 to 10 years with meticulous maintenance.



That's what I am saying.You maintain a Tractor battery it works fine and runtime is long.If you are lazy,DON'T USE THEM!!!

SLA batterys are the way to go if you want to set it and forget it!
God,it's like no matter how many times I write maintenance while using a tractor battery.NO one reads that!
I worked at a Golf course when I was young and seen the same kinda neglect. They just keep chargeing them and using them with out takeing care of the batterys under the seat.Notice,I said under the seat.Sealed compartment,no Explosions!!!
That's where they are charged at as well!
Not to mention half of them had the mounts that hold the batterys down unbolted or not even their.
Know what happens to a battery that is rubbing the side of another battery and jumps up and down under the metal framed seat?
Hmmmm,shorts and holes rubbed into it.
Once again,not the batterys fault.
Bad Maintenace!!!


Use a friggen SLA battery for all I care.

I use Tractor Batterys,I like to ride for hours!
No leaks and no explosions,and I smoke!!!

I am sure most of you think if you drop a cigarette into a bucket of gas it will ignite as well,don't you?
Your the same people who use Goverment quotes as a way of life.
Don't smoke at a gas station....LMAO
You cell phone will blow up the pumps...LMAO
The only thing that will catch the gas on fire is filling your portable gas tank in the bed of your truck if you have a liner in it.
SPARKS,just like a spark plug!

Oh well,I am done with this.

Have fun,telling people Tractor batterys are the anti christ.
That they leak and blow up.
That by using them,God will not let you into heaven...LMAO

Edited by - RICKYVB on 09/21/2009 12:41:34
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  13:00:23  Show Profile
It's not that they will leak, blow up, crush your child in a rollover, etc. It's just that they are more likely to do so than if you were using an SLA battery. And no, PWs are not running batteries down to zero charge. The vehicle stops moving long before that. Run any battery down to zero charge a number of times and it will fail.

And the other poster referencing Trojan batteries in golf carts is talking about deep-cycle batteries, not starter (car) batteries.

I fully agree that if you meticulously maintain your car battery by constantly replacing lost fluids, charging them properly, etc that you can get years of service and lots of charging cycles and if handled with property safety precautions won't ignite the hydrogen gas emitted during charging. The problem is, your average person simply will not do that. Hell, many here have failed the simple concept of adding a fuse or circuit breaker and now you want them to be checking batteries for proper fluid levels and acid content and purchasing distilled water to add? It simply isn't realistic and largely unnecessary when SLA's are available.

If you want to do that, that's fine. More power to you. But when people come on to this site and mostly ask basic electrical questions such as how do I know which is the positive wire? I'm not going to recommend a battery to them that needs maintenance to be safe.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock

Edited by - treebeme on 09/21/2009 13:09:52
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l3viathan
Journeyman Modder

Wellsville
New York
USA



151 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  13:12:27  Show Profile  Visit l3viathan's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by RICKYVB


That's what I am saying.You maintain a Tractor battery it works fine and runtime is long.If you are lazy,DON'T USE THEM!!!



I don't know about tractor batteries specifically, but cheap golf cart batteries last about a year, maybe 2 despite the best care. That is why Trojans cost about $250 a piece and weight 60-70lbs (depending on model) for a single 6v battery. It is very easy to drop a grand on a 36v pack. However, fully discharging these batteries significantly shortens their lifespan.



Xtreme XR-401 • Kawasaki Ninja • Dora Lil' Quad
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RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  13:25:26  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by treebeme

It's not that they will leak, blow up, crush your child in a rollover, etc. It's just that they are more likely to do so than if you were using an SLA battery. And no, PWs are not running batteries down to zero charge. The vehicle stops moving long before that. Run any battery down to zero charge a number of times and it will fail.

And the other poster referencing Trojan batteries in golf carts is talking about deep-cycle batteries, not starter (car) batteries.

I fully agree that if you meticulously maintain your car battery by constantly replacing lost fluids, charging them properly, etc that you can get years of service and lots of charging cycles and if handled with property safety precautions won't ignite the hydrogen gas emitted during charging. The problem is, your average person simply will not do that. Hell, many here have failed the simple concept of adding a fuse or circuit breaker and now you want them to be checking batteries for proper fluid levels and acid content and purchasing distilled water to add? It simply isn't realistic and largely unnecessary when SLA's are available.

If you want to do that, that's fine. More power to you. But when people come on to this site and mostly ask basic electrical questions such as how do I know which is the positive wire? I'm not going to recommend a battery to them that needs maintenance to be safe.




That's a valid point on who shows up here.That's why I keep saying maintenance if you are going to use Tractor or Car batterys and allways mount them securely.

I all so keep saying if your not going to pay attention to the maintenance of the battery,DO NOT USE THEM!!

I never told anybody be a DUMB@$$ and just cut a hole big enough that a car battery fits in loose and use any wire laying around to hook it up with. While you at it,charge it under the hood on QUICK CHARGE and smoke a cigarette next to it.
Sence,charging at high voltage will make hydrogen!!!

That is what you guys keep makeing it out to be when anybody uses a Tractor battery.But,I guess what you mean is somebody else might do one of the things above and not pay attention to what I write as a
maintenance routine.

Well,then for all of you that should not be messing with the power of a powerwheels in the first place!
Replace with only a standard Powerwheels battery.You should not be cutting wires if you don't know what they goto first.
That goes for any battery swap.You can burn yourself on an SLA battery if you get wires crossed.Not to mention your child!
DON'T USE TRACTOR OR CAR BATTERYS!!!

Edited by - RICKYVB on 09/21/2009 13:30:48
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  13:43:18  Show Profile
There you go. LOL!











.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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rollndice83
Expert Modder

Lansdale
PA
USA



850 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2009 :  14:38:41  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by gseric69

Car batteries are also designed to produce a high amp output (to get that starter cranking) and as such I've seen plenty of PW's modded to use car batteries with melted wires.
Also as Tree pointed out, they are not designed for the deep cycle use that PW's require. A car battery is designed to start a car and that's it. After that the alternator kicks in, keeps the battery charged and powers the car. Repeated discharges are going to kill a car battery pretty fast.

Yea i know Treebeme mentioned this in another thread and thanks Eric for saying it again. I think people are forgetting about the CCA on a car battery. It's not just of well its a 12Volt battery and i can tape it up so i won't leak. The CCA varies from battery to battery so the higher you go the more damage. And again like treebeme said.....SLA Batteries are cheaper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When 18V is to slow...Time to go to 50cc quads
88 Super 6Volt Corvette Project
90 Suzuki Quad Super6 on 12V
12V F-150
12V Suzuki 3-Wheeler(2WD Super6)Current Project
Lifted Fire Rescue Jeep(Upgrading to 21T 18V)
WildThing Super6 Volt
12V Harley(WIP)
Original 6V PW Hot Rod
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Gausswave
Journeyman Modder

Bellevue
WA
USA

128 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2009 :  01:00:19  Show Profile
Ummmm Wow... Umm Gee where to start. As a master destroyer of batteries in all ways possible.( I do robotic combat as well so I do mean "master" ).

Really the question shouldn't be " can I " we all know you can. It should be " should I"....

SLA's....if you're really concerned about safety aren't up for considreation. They can't be totally sealed. If damaged they leak. That means even the stock official power wheels battery could be a bad plan. I got pictures of the one I disected if anyone wants to see them! I discovered you can easily remove the stock battery side connector by doing this. I'm sure that may be common knowledge but I still have a few thousand threads to catch up on.

Really there is no such thing as a " SEALED " lead acid batter. there are various levels of " non spillable " batteries. Gelcells and AGM or Absorbed glass matt are good examples of this. Charging produces hydrogen Period. Doesn't matter how fast it's a product of a chemical reaction. SLA's have to be vented for this reason. Wanna see the powerwheels battery leak? Try charging it up sidedown. it take a while but it will happen.

Fast charging any battery chemestry yields a false peak charge. It makes the battery hot when it charges this raises the internal resistance which creates more heat. This boils out the water in the electrolite. Vicious cycle. So long slow charges work better. This holds true for any battery chemestry for different reasons. 2 biggest battery killers under normal use are heat and vibration. Next 2 are over charging ( which the stock charger will do and does if you leave it on too long ) and excessive discharging. Sadly the nature of a PW vehicle makes it a bad offender in these last 2 catagories.

The PW stock wiring does nothing to prevent a battery from being excessivly discharged. It is mind nubmily as basic as it can be. Even on a deep cycle battery You will loose capasity if you run them too low. Most Scooter controls have a low voltage cut off these days to help preserve the battery.

So should you use a car battery?
Hey they're cheap! They run a long time!

OTOH...
They have open terminals.
They aren't designed for deep cycle use.
They don't do slow discharge well long term.
They are heavy.
Which also causes premature wear of the wheels
and pre mature wear of the steering joints.
Makes the vehicle harder to steer.
Limits the load carring capasity.
The acid can leak.

It might not burn right away but if it gets on their hands it will eventually get rubbed in the eyes. Let's see how well that works out. How cheap is that battery after an ER visit?

This debate falls under it's own magic triangle. SAFE, FAST or CHEAP....Pick 2 any 2. But only 2.




So many toys so little time.....
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2009 :  06:40:44  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Gausswave

Ummmm Wow... Umm Gee where to start. As a master destroyer of batteries in all ways possible.( I do robotic combat as well so I do mean "master" ).

Really the question shouldn't be " can I " we all know you can. It should be " should I"....

SLA's....if you're really concerned about safety aren't up for considreation. They can't be totally sealed. If damaged they leak. That means even the stock official power wheels battery could be a bad plan. I got pictures of the one I disected if anyone wants to see them! I discovered you can easily remove the stock battery side connector by doing this. I'm sure that may be common knowledge but I still have a few thousand threads to catch up on.

Really there is no such thing as a " SEALED " lead acid batter. there are various levels of " non spillable " batteries. Gelcells and AGM or Absorbed glass matt are good examples of this. Charging produces hydrogen Period. Doesn't matter how fast it's a product of a chemical reaction. SLA's have to be vented for this reason. Wanna see the powerwheels battery leak? Try charging it up sidedown. it take a while but it will happen.

Fast charging any battery chemestry yields a false peak charge. It makes the battery hot when it charges this raises the internal resistance which creates more heat. This boils out the water in the electrolite. Vicious cycle. So long slow charges work better. This holds true for any battery chemestry for different reasons. 2 biggest battery killers under normal use are heat and vibration. Next 2 are over charging ( which the stock charger will do and does if you leave it on too long ) and excessive discharging. Sadly the nature of a PW vehicle makes it a bad offender in these last 2 catagories.

The PW stock wiring does nothing to prevent a battery from being excessivly discharged. It is mind nubmily as basic as it can be. Even on a deep cycle battery You will loose capasity if you run them too low. Most Scooter controls have a low voltage cut off these days to help preserve the battery.

So should you use a car battery?
Hey they're cheap! They run a long time!

OTOH...
They have open terminals.
They aren't designed for deep cycle use.
They don't do slow discharge well long term.
They are heavy.
Which also causes premature wear of the wheels
and pre mature wear of the steering joints.
Makes the vehicle harder to steer.
Limits the load carring capasity.
The acid can leak.

It might not burn right away but if it gets on their hands it will eventually get rubbed in the eyes. Let's see how well that works out. How cheap is that battery after an ER visit?

This debate falls under it's own magic triangle. SAFE, FAST or CHEAP....Pick 2 any 2. But only 2.







Two additional notes.

The stock battery is a wet-cell. However, the aftermarket ones we recommend are pretty much all AGM batteries. So while I agree that they can still vent hydrogen, they are not going to get low on fluid levels and end up with hydrogen in the cell which can explode.

We also recommend automatic battery chargers that go into float mode when charged for safety purposes. This is fine for SLA batteries. Starter batteries on the other hand require higher volts to charge them properly which makes float mode charging pretty much impossible.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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tipper mad
New Member

chester

United Kingdom



2 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2009 :  08:59:01  Show Profile
Cheers lads for all the advice didnt want to cause any arguments though . I have a neerly new car battery here so i thik that is the way to go the jeep has a 4 pin conector to go to the battery has anyone got any tips on how to wire it all up and will it still have 2 gears in forwards
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rollndice83
Expert Modder

Lansdale
PA
USA



850 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2009 :  14:19:04  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by tipper mad

Cheers lads for all the advice didnt want to cause any arguments though . I have a neerly new car battery here so i thik that is the way to go the jeep has a 4 pin conector to go to the battery has anyone got any tips on how to wire it all up and will it still have 2 gears in forwards

yea those car batteries also weigh a lot more than a 12V 12Ah SLA battery so good luck with the steering of the Jeep if you put it up front. And if you put it under the seat you are going to be pushing those motors and gearboxes

When 18V is to slow...Time to go to 50cc quads
88 Super 6Volt Corvette Project
90 Suzuki Quad Super6 on 12V
12V F-150
12V Suzuki 3-Wheeler(2WD Super6)Current Project
Lifted Fire Rescue Jeep(Upgrading to 21T 18V)
WildThing Super6 Volt
12V Harley(WIP)
Original 6V PW Hot Rod
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Divinar
Moderator

San Jose 95123
CA
USA



3057 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2009 :  15:18:41  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by tipper mad

Cheers lads for all the advice didnt want to cause any arguments though . I have a neerly new car battery here so i thik that is the way to go the jeep has a 4 pin conector to go to the battery has anyone got any tips on how to wire it all up and will it still have 2 gears in forwards


If you've got four wires going from the batteries to the car, you're out of luck anyway.

You'll need two 6v batteries to be switched from parallel (6v) to series (12v) for the high/low speed. You can't replace them with a single 12v unless you rewire it.


Escalade (Rubber tires, LED lights, Key switch, Remote Kill, wings. Wings?)
Lil Wrangler (2WD, 12v, Lights), Dora Jeep (Super-6 @ 12v, lights), Jeep Enforcer turned Aftershock (18v, WIP),
Grape Gaucho A151 (24v, scooter controller, WIP)
KFX Quad (Remote Kill), Crushmeister! (Silverado), Limited Edition Jeep (Stock)
Kawasaki Mojave 250 (Stock), PP Gator (Lights), Home Depot Loader, Lightning McQueen (Stock)
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ecoclean
Senior Modder

coopersburg
pa
USA



1184 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2009 :  17:03:36  Show Profile  Visit ecoclean's Homepage
Rewire schmire, put a 12v in, so you lose rev and low does your kid need them anyway

3-Gaucho's 18v
Gaucho-Silver 18v (wip)
Driveway Racer X5
6x4x4 Gator - WIP
Yamaha Raptor 660r 18v
Eliminator 19t, 12v wip
Lifted Beach Rescue Jeep
X Machine - 21t 18v wip
JD Power Pull
Dial Corvette
Super BigFoot x 2
Barbie Vette

www.environmentallycleanoption.com
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RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2009 :  08:07:37  Show Profile
LMAO!!!

Today I found a PW Quad Ninja. You know what was under the seat?
A friggen SLA battery that is warped and leaking acid....LMAO
Thankyou battery gods,you have made my day so great.
I wasn't going to even get the ninja because it is chewed to crap and back from a dog. I had too,Once I opened the seat compartment and
looked inside,there was a SLA battery in their.Gift from god!!!




Who was it that said all batterys can leak and be dangerous?
Hmmm...

ME!!!

The only reason why Powerwheels Batterys hardly ever leak is because they are made of superthick plastic. They know what I have been saying. Neglect and abuse will cause leaks. So they made there's super strong.To bad PW batterys suck the most for runtime though!

This one was secured in place and the wires where right.The battery swelled from the inside out. Now how is that a safer battery then a tractor battery. If a tractor battery has in internal problem the caps will vent it.This one had to crack open to vent!Notice all the acid on the outside...LMAO
Notice my fingers are not melting off!....LMAO

I am guessing that the previous owner tried to quick charge this battery. Thus produceing more hydrogen internally then this batterys walls could handle.

DO NOT QUICK CHARGE AN SLA BATTERY WITH A CAR QUICK CHARGER AT HIGH AMPS!!!

Edited by - RICKYVB on 09/23/2009 08:16:41
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rollndice83
Expert Modder

Lansdale
PA
USA



850 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2009 :  08:29:15  Show Profile
I had a red PW 6Volt battery that split open and a 12V 12Ah with a crack in it also. Any battery can be dangerous. Lets be real here...Anything electrical is dangerous to some extent. The main reason i do not use Car,Tractor Batteries is A. Weight B.Physical Size C. CCA Rating D. IMO They look ugly! E. They are harder on the wiring and electrical components than a SLA Battery.

You find the smallest tractor battery you can at Wal-Mart and weigh that hunk...Then weigh a 12V 12Ah SLA. When it comes down to it with speed and racing weight is everything. Now why would you use that battery?

When 18V is to slow...Time to go to 50cc quads
88 Super 6Volt Corvette Project
90 Suzuki Quad Super6 on 12V
12V F-150
12V Suzuki 3-Wheeler(2WD Super6)Current Project
Lifted Fire Rescue Jeep(Upgrading to 21T 18V)
WildThing Super6 Volt
12V Harley(WIP)
Original 6V PW Hot Rod

Edited by - rollndice83 on 09/23/2009 08:32:45
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RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2009 :  08:36:42  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by rollndice83

I had a red PW 6Volt battery that split open and a 12V 12Ah with a crack in it also. Any battery can be dangerous. Lets be real here...Anything electrical is dangerous to some extent. The main reason i do not use Car,Tractor Batteries is A. Weight B.Physical Size C. CCA Rating D. IMO They look ugly! E. They are harder on the wiring and electrical components than a SLA Battery.

You find the smallest tractor battery you can at Wal-Mart and weigh that hunk...Then weigh a 12V 12Ah SLA. When it comes down to it with speed and racing weight is everything. Now why would you use that battery?



Weight is not that big of an issue with my builds.They have to haul me around as well. I think my small tractor battery weighs about 10 pounds more then an SLA. Which,is not a big deal to me. But a car Battery,christ.That thing weighs to much. Thats why I only used one in my video to show they don't just leak and they are usable.I just don't use car batterys because like you said,They weigh to much.
But,if that's all you got.Then that's all you got.

Tractor batterys RULE!!! For me anyway!!! I can't get over the long runtimes.That keeps me using them,over and over again.

Edited by - RICKYVB on 09/23/2009 08:37:41
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rollndice83
Expert Modder

Lansdale
PA
USA



850 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2009 :  08:43:15  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by RICKYVB

quote:
Originally posted by rollndice83

I had a red PW 6Volt battery that split open and a 12V 12Ah with a crack in it also. Any battery can be dangerous. Lets be real here...Anything electrical is dangerous to some extent. The main reason i do not use Car,Tractor Batteries is A. Weight B.Physical Size C. CCA Rating D. IMO They look ugly! E. They are harder on the wiring and electrical components than a SLA Battery.

You find the smallest tractor battery you can at Wal-Mart and weigh that hunk...Then weigh a 12V 12Ah SLA. When it comes down to it with speed and racing weight is everything. Now why would you use that battery?



Weight is not that big of an issue with my builds.They have to haul me around as well. I think my small tractor battery weighs about 10 pounds more then an SLA. Which,is not a big deal to me. But a car Battery,christ.That thing weighs to much. Thats why I only used one in my video to show they don't just leak and they are usable.I just don't use car batterys because like you said,They weigh to much.
But,if that's all you got.Then that's all you got.

Tractor batterys RULE!!! For me anyway!!! I can't get over the long runtimes.That keeps me using them,over and over again.

I hear ya man. I ain't knocking it. And i understand for your builds and application it works great.

When 18V is to slow...Time to go to 50cc quads
88 Super 6Volt Corvette Project
90 Suzuki Quad Super6 on 12V
12V F-150
12V Suzuki 3-Wheeler(2WD Super6)Current Project
Lifted Fire Rescue Jeep(Upgrading to 21T 18V)
WildThing Super6 Volt
12V Harley(WIP)
Original 6V PW Hot Rod
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treebeme
Advanced Modder

Holtsville
NY
USA



3209 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2009 :  08:44:40  Show Profile
Any battery can be dangerous. That isn't the point. The issue is the level of risk.

------------------------------------------------
Screamin Demon (600 watt scooter motor, 36v scooter controller)
Red Harley (trike, 24v scooter controller, 13t MFJ gearboxes/motors)
KFX Quad (24v scooter controller, MFJ 12t gearboxes/motors)
Fire Rescue Jeep (24v scooter controller, 15t #7 gearboxes/motors)
Franken(berry)beast (24v scooter controller, 2-250Watt Scooter motors)
Grave Digger (21T gearboxes)
Super Shock
Razor MX-350 Motorcycle

Projects
--------
Jeep Wrangler (on hold)
Barbie Cruzin Tunes Jeep (24v scooter controller)
TCV Indy Racer (24v scooter controller)
Gator (on hold)
Silverado Dragster (on hold)
Apache (on hold)
Metal big wheel (24v scooter controller)
Jeep Aftershock
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rollndice83
Expert Modder

Lansdale
PA
USA



850 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2009 :  09:02:40  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by treebeme

Any battery can be dangerous. That isn't the point. The issue is the level of risk.

That's exactly what I think too Treebeme. A tractor battery is designed for a system with an electric starter. It needs that amperage to crank the starter and turn the motor over. No starters in PWs. So that is a big jolt to the small electrical system in PWs and very unsafe causing the level of risk for fire to increase exponentially

When 18V is to slow...Time to go to 50cc quads
88 Super 6Volt Corvette Project
90 Suzuki Quad Super6 on 12V
12V F-150
12V Suzuki 3-Wheeler(2WD Super6)Current Project
Lifted Fire Rescue Jeep(Upgrading to 21T 18V)
WildThing Super6 Volt
12V Harley(WIP)
Original 6V PW Hot Rod
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PW warehouse
Senior Modder

Central
IN
USA



1712 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2009 :  09:56:46  Show Profile
Not what you should be wanting any kid to breath. You said it yourself. "If a tractor battery has in internal problem the caps will vent it". Vent it where into your childs lungs. And this you cannot see. Your skin is not near as delicate as a developing child.


This subject is worse then what was deleted a month or 2 ago,with the gal picking up the ride ons at the supposed foreclosed house.
I wouldn't be so bad if the shouting and verbal abuse wasn't going on. Kids do get on this site and read also. So please watch what you are saying. It really is uncalled for.

I put into motion that this be deleted. Is a bad representation of this forum.

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RICKYVB
Senior Modder

TAMPA
FLORIDA
USA

1265 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2009 :  10:57:31  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by PW warehouse

Not what you should be wanting any kid to breath. You said it yourself. "If a tractor battery has in internal problem the caps will vent it". Vent it where into your childs lungs. And this you cannot see. Your skin is not near as delicate as a developing child.


This subject is worse then what was deleted a month or 2 ago,with the gal picking up the ride ons at the supposed foreclosed house.
I wouldn't be so bad if the shouting and verbal abuse wasn't going on. Kids do get on this site and read also. So please watch what you are saying. It really is uncalled for.

I put into motion that this be deleted. Is a bad representation of this forum.




Again I write the same thing over.

Tractor batterys do not leak acid if properly Maintained.
Tractor batterys do not cause fires if wired properly.
Tractor batterys do not explode if they are not charged at High amps in an inclosed area and a spark is present.
Tractor batterys do not release hydrogen when in use due to the battery reconsumeing the hydrogen during the use cycle.

As far as children breathing the fumes in,read above about Hydrogen.
Who in gods name would put any battery in the same compartment as a child in the first place.
If you are stupid enough to place a battery in an area where your child could access it,DO NOT!!!

You guys should read more about Batterys and Hydrogen production before you write what you write. There is a ton of factors to be considered in order for the Unsealed batterys to do what you say they do.

One of which will screw up any type of battery,and that is high amp Chargeing.
Yes,it is quick.
But,very bad!!!

As far as Battery choices.
I would Say to use SLA battery at Low Charge for New modders now.
Treebeme brought to my attention that there is people who come on here that do not know a Postive terminal from a negitive terminal.
So the SLA offers some level of protection to them.Not much!!!
But,the risks are lower in that aspect.

As you can see though,neglect to the battery is dangerous no matter what kinda it is.Notice the picture I posted of the SLA battery I found wired up to the NINJA.
That is just uncalled for in a Childs toy.
Considering it is underneath the seat!!!

I allways Place my tractor batterys in the Front of a Long Wheel based Powerwheels.
The video I posted was simply to show they do not leak at any angle when Maintained properly.
I placed the Car Battery in the rear of the jeep to help it acheive wheelies.It has now sence been removed and A Tractor battery has been bolted into the front.

NO more wheelies

So for anyone who is new to modding.
USE AN SLA Battery!!!

For those of you who are not lazy and can maintain a Battery.
Use whatever you want.
Just Trickle charge EVERY BATTERY!



Edited by - RICKYVB on 09/23/2009 11:00:09
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gameboy
Moderator

just north of austin
tx
USA



4796 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2009 :  07:02:39  Show Profile
and the age old question continues...


i have made this a sticky because even though this gets heated at times it does have ton of great info about batteries and there properties and what proper maintenance can do for you

"free is always better"
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larold83
Apprentice Modder




85 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2009 :  05:03:04  Show Profile
well i put a tractor batt. in my daughters ninja quad built a batt box off the back out of plywood will post picks later i didn'y clip the harnes just shoved the terminal in the harness but is it hard on the gears at all i have to put studds in mine cuz of were we live its alittle hilly and if i don't it just spinns
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ifne
New Member

UK<<< ENGLAND
LONDON



20 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2009 :  10:14:33  Show Profile  Visit ifne's Homepage  Click to see ifne's MSN Messenger address
hi iam new to this info
iam a sparky in the trade,

just wanted to ask few questions
i have a 2 seat hummer with 12v 10a battery i have 2 of these can i wire them both together still in 12v to make the hummer last longer?
also is there a quicker why to charge them then the 20hour charger i got with it?

there can i get a spare battery lead from? thanks

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gameboy
Moderator

just north of austin
tx
USA



4796 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2009 :  21:10:01  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by ifne


1 i have a 2 seat hummer with 12v 10a battery i have 2 of these can i wire them both together still in 12v to make the hummer last longer?

2 also is there a quicker why to charge them then the 20hour charger i got with it?




1 yes, hook both pos. together and both neg. together that will give you 12v. but 20amps. leave them together like that for charging too.

2 you can buy a schumacher 600 like in here http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=695 and if you charge like you have it set for riding then you can set it to 6 amps. that will reduce your charge time to about 6-8 hours

"free is always better"
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ifne
New Member

UK<<< ENGLAND
LONDON



20 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2009 :  05:29:47  Show Profile  Visit ifne's Homepage  Click to see ifne's MSN Messenger address
thanks for reply,

also i have 12v motors

if i stick 18vlots down them would it make them faster to drive?

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gseric69
Moderator

Red Lion
PA
USA



6315 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2009 :  05:41:03  Show Profile  Visit gseric69's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by ifne

thanks for reply,

also i have 12v motors

if i stick 18vlots down them would it make them faster to drive?



Yes, about a 50% increase in speed.

36V Peg Perego Apache - Project: Super Power Police Jeep, 18V Metal Frame Jeep - Project: Sarge
Dragon/Craftsman Pickup Hybrid (WIP), 18V John Deere Off Road 4x4 (Gaucho, SOLD!)
12V Lil Jeep, 18V Turbo Sun Jammer Jeep, 12V Super 6 F150 Blue Thunder,
18V Lightning McQueen & 12V Lightning McQueen w/Duratrax Motors (Sold)
18V Green & Blue Ninja Quads w/19T's, 18V Dora Quad with 21T's
12V Harley Bat Bike w/Duratrax Motors, 12V Pink Harley (Future Trike)
Future Builds: 12V Xtreme Machine, 12V PW Fire Truck, 6V Wild Thing Super 6 & Mach 5
RIP: 12V Super 6 Suzuki Quad w/Seperate Brake pedal (Decommissioned/Parted)
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ifne
New Member

UK<<< ENGLAND
LONDON



20 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2009 :  10:27:33  Show Profile  Visit ifne's Homepage  Click to see ifne's MSN Messenger address
hi, does this mean that i have to charge it for 40hours?

as one battery got 20 hour chager?

hi how do you wire it up to 12v and not 24v

like this?


Edited by - ifne on 12/28/2009 10:53:38
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gseric69
Moderator

Red Lion
PA
USA



6315 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2009 :  11:12:16  Show Profile  Visit gseric69's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by ifne

hi, does this mean that i have to charge it for 40hours?

as one battery got 20 hour chager?

hi how do you wire it up to 12v and not 24v

like this?




No, don't wire it like that, that will make the batteries very unhappy to say the least. You need to wire the two 12V batteries in Parallel to keep them at 12V.



To charge them together they should be connected in the same way as well. Charging time will double what it currently takes you to charge a single 12V 10AH battery if you continue to use the same charger. I would recommend buying a smart charger similar to the one Gameboy mentioned above. I see that you're in the UK, so I'm not sure if you can buy Schumacher chargers there or not, but you could look for a 12V charger that charges at different rates, such as 2, 4, and 6 amps.
When charging both batteries together you would use the 6amp rate, and when charging a battery by itself, use the 2amp rate.

36V Peg Perego Apache - Project: Super Power Police Jeep, 18V Metal Frame Jeep - Project: Sarge
Dragon/Craftsman Pickup Hybrid (WIP), 18V John Deere Off Road 4x4 (Gaucho, SOLD!)
12V Lil Jeep, 18V Turbo Sun Jammer Jeep, 12V Super 6 F150 Blue Thunder,
18V Lightning McQueen & 12V Lightning McQueen w/Duratrax Motors (Sold)
18V Green & Blue Ninja Quads w/19T's, 18V Dora Quad with 21T's
12V Harley Bat Bike w/Duratrax Motors, 12V Pink Harley (Future Trike)
Future Builds: 12V Xtreme Machine, 12V PW Fire Truck, 6V Wild Thing Super 6 & Mach 5
RIP: 12V Super 6 Suzuki Quad w/Seperate Brake pedal (Decommissioned/Parted)

Edited by - gseric69 on 12/28/2009 11:16:05
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Divinar
Moderator

San Jose 95123
CA
USA



3057 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2009 :  11:15:39  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by ifne

hi, does this mean that i have to charge it for 40hours?

as one battery got 20 hour chager?

hi how do you wire it up to 12v and not 24v

like this?




NO - that wiring won't give you anything.

If what you want is more run time, wire in parallel:
Pos1 to Pos2 to Pos wire.
Neg1 to Neg2 to Neg wire.
The batteries must be the same voltage!

If you want more speed, wire in series.
Pos1 to Pos wire.
Neg1 to Pos2
Neg2 to Neg wire.
(The 6v battery should be a higher AH rating than the 12v for best results.)


Escalade (Rubber tires, LED lights, Key switch, Remote Kill, wings. Wings?)
Lil Wrangler (2WD, 12v, Lights), Dora Jeep (Super-6 @ 12v, lights), Jeep Enforcer turned Aftershock (18v, WIP),
Grape Gaucho A151 (24v, scooter controller, WIP)
KFX Quad (Remote Kill), Crushmeister! (Silverado), Limited Edition Jeep (Stock)
Kawasaki Mojave 250 (Stock), PP Gator (Lights), Home Depot Loader, Lightning McQueen (Stock)
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